Fast-Filling Events

[_MTL_]

And the savings is at the TD's convenience, sitting on a couch. Not when there are dozens of other tasks needed attention. :hfive:

Still not perfect.

Hole notes / rules aren't saved. For example I ran an event in November and this past weekend on the same course / same layout and when I chose the course, it didn't suggest / auto fill rules.

To me, that's screaming for someone to forget something. I, for example, have every course rules saved in word docs that I used to print. I can easily see myself forgetting about a random sidewalk on a course sitting at my house typing notes in.

 

[klodkrawler05]

There's still one big flaw with the online scoring.

The 2021 rules require the TD provide a second scorecard b/c the competition committee is so scared that online scoring won't work, leads to cheating, etc.

First off, what's more likely to happen? someone to cheat on paper and you miss it 2 hours later or someone cheating on a phone and that score being immediately reported to everyone online?

But I agree, it's easier to make errors with the online scoring than with paper, so the new rule is in place.

Each group should have two people log in to the scoring app and then designate one as the official and one as the backup. The every hole the app should compare the scores and if any aren't correct, it sends an alert to correct. This solves every concern with online scoring.

It would be great if this was a widely known option. I for one didn't realize you could have 2 people keep score within the live scoring. Cards I've played on have always had 1 person keeping score on udisc and 1 person keeping track on the PDGA live scoring, then comparing totals every few holes. So far in 13 rounds of scoring we've caught 1 mis-typed stroke. The next tournament I'm at I'll have to explore a bit. Do both people simply log in as normal and it's obvious where/who is the official and who is backup or how do cards set that up?

 

[_MTL_]

It would be great if this was a widely known option. I for one didn't realize you could have 2 people keep score within the live scoring. Cards I've played on have always had 1 person keeping score on udisc and 1 person keeping track on the PDGA live scoring, then comparing totals every few holes. So far in 13 rounds of scoring we've caught 1 mis-typed stroke. The next tournament I'm at I'll have to explore a bit. Do both people simply log in as normal and it's obvious where/who is the official and who is backup or how do cards set that up?

You can't. That was my point.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The thing about paper scorecards is it's easier to tell when a hole score might have been modified, especially when pencils without erasers are used. If someone changes a score with pencil, you'll be able to see the overwrite or crossout and remember why it was changed, or worse, realize it was changed without knowledge.

An improvement for online scoring would be for the system to flag hole score changes made by the scorekeeper later in the round after they were initially locked in at the time each hole was scored. That way, there's an edit trail that players can see when they look at their scores at the end of the round to confirm their final score. If they see their score on hole 5 highlighted with the edit flag, they know it was changed, hopefully for a reason they remember. If that reason is not clear, the scorekeeper potentially made a mistake or unauthorized edit to be discussed by the group to make sure the correct number is entered. Once edit flag tracking is in the system, scoring mistakes and potential tampering would be reduced.

 

[BillFleming]

The thing about paper scorecards is it's easier to tell when a hole score might have been modified, especially when pencils without erasers are used. If someone changes a score with pencil, you'll be able to see the overwrite or crossout and remember why it was changed, or worse, realize it was changed without knowledge.

An improvement for online scoring would be for the system to flag hole score changes made by the scorekeeper later in the round after they were initially locked in at the time each hole was scored. That way, there's an edit trail that players can see when they look at their scores at the end of the round to confirm their final score. If they see their score on hole 5 highlighted with the edit flag, they know it was changed, hopefully for a reason they remember. If that reason is not clear, the scorekeeper potentially made a mistake or unauthorized edit to be discussed by the group to make sure the correct number is entered. Once edit flag tracking is in the system, scoring mistakes and potential tampering would be reduced.

Normally, scoring is supposed to be switched between players, but you can't do that easily with live scoring. Passing the paper copy around every few holes helped make sure no changes were being made without everyone's knowledge. Now with one person keeping the official score, it's more difficult to check if a change was made during the round.

I'd like to see a 'changed' score show up as red. Or better yet, a score, once entered, can't be changed unless all the players on the card confirm it. Of course, someone could change the score and enter the other player's information to confirm it. But if the changed score is in red, then the players can see it was changed and they would know if they approved it or not.

But until then....the solution is for the other players to bring up the scoring on their phone and follow along....it might not be current, but you should be able catch unapproved changes quickly enough.

I usually use uDisc to keep my score when the group is using PDGA Live Scoring. If the group is using uDisc, I use the PDGA scoring app. That way I can quickly catch if my score is correct.

 

[klodkrawler05]

the PDGA scoring does have an option to take over scoring mid-round from a different device, useful if folks like to pass off score keeping duties mid round or if you are somewhere with questionable cell service and one phone suddenly stops having signal but another carrier/phone is still fine.

 

[ToddL]

It would be great if this was a widely known option. I for one didn't realize you could have 2 people keep score within the live scoring. Cards I've played on have always had 1 person keeping score on udisc and 1 person keeping track on the PDGA live scoring, then comparing totals every few holes. So far in 13 rounds of scoring we've caught 1 mis-typed stroke. The next tournament I'm at I'll have to explore a bit. Do both people simply log in as normal and it's obvious where/who is the official and who is backup or how do cards set that up?

Two people can log in at the same time, but the programming is not set up to check between the two. One score will simply be overwritten by the other.

 

[uncle pennybags]

Two people can log in at the same time, but the programming is not set up to check between the two. One score will simply be overwritten by the other.

That would be a solid improvement. Two or more keep score on the phones and if the scores come out different the 'card' has to reconcile before submitting.

Also, doesn't the PDGA own uDisc? If so why can't they get that to do official scoring?

 

[oldmandiscer]

That would be a solid improvement. Two or more keep score on the phones and if the scores come out different the 'card' has to reconcile before submitting.

Also, doesn't the PDGA own uDisc? If so why can't they get that to do official scoring?

The PDGA doesn't own UDisc. Matt Krueger does.

 

[uncle pennybags]

The PDGA doesn't own UDisc. Matt Krueger does.

I just misremembered the announcement. Looking back is says partnership, not ownership.

The point is why not consolidate all this live scoring into one system that will allow users to track their own stats. Some people like stats.

Plus if the app backend is robust enough each player with the app could track their own score, but see the whole card at any given time. That would be great. The only downside I can think of is low signal areas. (and crotchety people with no cell phone! )

 

[oldmandiscer]

I just misremembered the announcement. Looking back is says partnership, not ownership.

The point is why not consolidate all this live scoring into one system that will allow users to track their own stats. Some people like stats.

Plus if the app backend is robust enough each player with the app could track their own score, but see the whole card at any given time. That would be great. The only downside I can think of is low signal areas. (and crotchety people with no cell phone! )

It's a work in progress. Matt is coming up with updates and new features all the time.

I agree it's not perfect yet. I know it would be nice if anyone on the card could keep score. I imagine that feature will come eventually along with others.

 

[dehaas]

I think a big part of things is what the TD is trying to accomplish with the event.

Is it a matter of simply selling out to help ensure they don't take a loss? Is it to have the reputation for a highly competitive field? Or something else?

If I'm the TD and my event sells out each year that quick I think I'd take steps to try to put together the most competitive field possible. At that point demand far outweighs supply...so why not showcase the exclusivity and turn it into an invitational...

There are a few different ways you could structure that.

 

[DavidSauls]

In my own case, it would be "...or something else".

But for a TD wishing to have the most competitive field, the PDGA's "first come" rules prevent an invitational, except I believe you can structure one with qualifier events. Or get a waiver; I recall some events in the past have tiered registration by rating.

 

[oldmandiscer]

In my own case, it would be "...or something else".

But for a TD wishing to have the most competitive field, the PDGA's "first come" rules prevent an invitational, except I believe you can structure one with qualifier events. Or get a waiver; I recall some events in the past have tiered registration by rating.

Worlds and USDGC are qualifiers/invitational.

 

[ToddL]

Or get a waiver; I recall some events in the past have tiered registration by rating.

Tiered registration by rating is built into the Competition Manual.

1.02.C.2: Unlimited Permitted Exceptions
These Unlimited Permitted Exceptions are not limited by percentage of event spots, but the specific early registration tiers for the Unlimited Permitted Exception must be first-come, first-served to any player who meets the specific requirements of that registration tier.
a. TDs may offer early registration tiers based on PDGA Player Ratings to give higher rated players priority.

 

[DavidSauls]

Thanks, Todd. I tend to skim over the passages that I know I won't have to deal with.

 

[Karl]

a. TDs may offer early registration tiers based on PDGA Player Ratings to give higher rated players priority.[/I]

Perhaps part of "Pro's" extra $25 annual fee?

 

[txmxer]

People changing scores (cheating) in disc golf is pretty pathetic.

 

[aredoubles]

Just adding another example - a local C-tier on a somewhat rural course usually opens for registration a month before the event, sign-ups slowly trickle in, and the event typically fills in the final few days beforehand.
This year, the event filled in two minutes, and fifteen minutes later there was already a waitlist 70(!) people deep. The comments section on Disc Golf Scene is filled with an angry mob, demanding that the poor TD add a second day or a second weekend, pointing to this waitlist that could fill an entire event on its own. Pretty eye-opening to see this for a random C-tier. I'm not sure what he's going to do.

 

[DavidSauls]

Wow. That's quite a leap. I'm used to seeing events progress over the years -- not filled, filled late, filled in a week, filled in 4 hours, filled in a few minutes, flash filled. Once there's a danger of getting left out, people hustle to get in.