Hazards

[brutalbrutus]

I know what disc golf really needs...



MOAR Oldmandiscer yelling at clouds threads...

 

[dmoore1998]

I never said play from a road or throw over roads, etc....

The annoyance is that natural areas which can be challenging for stance, footing and power are not being used anymore. The TD "designers" are just making it OB and go drop from the fairway. I would prefer to see players play from where they land if possible. Like I said before with a caveat that certain areas can be highly prone to losing a disc, it does make sense then to use hazard rule where you have an option of playing where it last crossed with a penalty or finding your disc and playing from there.

So what would be your cost effective and relatively easy idea for a TD to look at a hole and say "wow, this hole requires no real strategy, I need to create some risk/reward beyond just bombing it as far as you can because it's always worth it to play this hole the exact same way"?

If the hazard isn't potent enough to act as a deterrent (hazard being used loosely here, could just be a tree or whatever, not necessary marked "hazard") then there's no strategy involved.

Obviously one of the best deterrents for disc golf is a lot of large, closely-spaced trees...that's not exactly cost effective or easy though if it doesn't already exist.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

So what would be your cost effective and relatively easy idea for a TD to look at a hole and say "wow, this hole requires no real strategy, I need to create some risk/reward beyond just bombing it as far as you can because it's always worth it to play this hole the exact same way"?

If the hazard isn't potent enough to act as a deterrent (hazard being used loosely here, could just be a tree or whatever, not necessary marked "hazard") then there's no strategy involved.

Obviously one of the best deterrents for disc golf is a lot of large, closely-spaced trees...that's not exactly cost effective or easy though if it doesn't already exist.

The point is that a stroke penalty is too harsh for those circumstances. You are trying to replicate a golf bunker which at most takes a half stroke off your score for an expert player.

A bad hole is bad hole. Trying to fix it by playing pretend with a harsh penalty doesn't make it a better hole, just gimmicky. Everyone plays the same hole. If you are trying to protect it from bombers, move the tee up. At the very least make them move it out of the hazard area before playing it. Extend it back and force players to take the same drop as casual water or as an actual water hazard if you insist on the added stroke. It would depend if you were trying to replicate a sand hazard or a water hazard.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

And as I've explained in other threads to OMD...

On my home course there are OB rules that are dictated to us by the municipality. So for example we cannot be throwing over roadways. They understand that a disc may go over a park road off the tee but they have explained that we may not throw back over the road from where the tee shot lands. So regardless of how OMD feels about the OB rule everything over and beyond the park road is OB. Same thing with the local pond. The municipality has put up "NO SWIMMING" signs so regardless of how BGC feels about whether water should be OB - the pond is definitely OB. You are not getting your plastic back from there unless you have a retriever of some sort. Sorry BGC but water cannot always be a hazard. And it's not just my home course either where these situations occur. There are a lot of courses I've been on where OB occurs not because some TD dictates it but because the course owners mandate it.

Throwing a disc in the water is not OB no matter how many times disc golfer or the PDGA wants to say. Water is a hazard and should be treated as such in disc golf. Throwing it over a road, which is a course boundary, is an acceptable use of OB BTW. It should require a re-throw in my opinion. Dropping where it went out of bounds (disc golf OB) has always been how ball golf treats hazards rather than OB. Why not use the same terminologies? It would only add to the appeal of the game.

Did you know the PGA tour pros refuse to play any course where there is in-course out of bounds?

 

[ballgolfconvert]

So what would be your cost effective and relatively easy idea for a TD to look at a hole and say "wow, this hole requires no real strategy, I need to create some risk/reward beyond just bombing it as far as you can because it's always worth it to play this hole the exact same way"?

If the hazard isn't potent enough to act as a deterrent (hazard being used loosely here, could just be a tree or whatever, not necessary marked "hazard") then there's no strategy involved.

Obviously one of the best deterrents for disc golf is a lot of large, closely-spaced trees...that's not exactly cost effective or easy though if it doesn't already exist.

Plenty of ball golf courses don't have much in the way of hazards either. Locals still play tourneys on them without adding imaginary hazards.

 

[oldmandiscer]

So what would be your cost effective and relatively easy idea for a TD to look at a hole and say "wow, this hole requires no real strategy, I need to create some risk/reward beyond just bombing it as far as you can because it's always worth it to play this hole the exact same way"?

If the hazard isn't potent enough to act as a deterrent (hazard being used loosely here, could just be a tree or whatever, not necessary marked "hazard") then there's no strategy involved.

Obviously one of the best deterrents for disc golf is a lot of large, closely-spaced trees...that's not exactly cost effective or easy though if it doesn't already exist.

Smaller target. No longer is that 25 footer a gimme for the pro. Even a wide open 300 foot hole isn't a given birdie. But this is another topic which has been discussed as well.

I think the hazard area itself is enough of a penalty. You may lose your disc which then it plays exactly like the OB rule now, if you do find it many of these areas the footing will be poor and difficult, the weeds can be 3-4 feet high, could be thick woods, you are going to be restricted and punished accordingly to how you threw your tee shot. We don't need to mark rough OB all the time.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Throwing a disc in the water is not OB no matter how many times disc golfer or the PDGA wants to say. Water is a hazard and should be treated as such in disc golf. Throwing it over a road, which is a course boundary, is an acceptable use of OB BTW. It should require a re-throw in my opinion. Dropping where it went out of bounds (disc golf OB) has always been how ball golf treats hazards rather than OB. Why not use the same terminologies? It would only add to the appeal of the game.

Did you know the PGA tour pros refuse to play any course where there is in-course out of bounds?

You would have to distinguish disc under water though as unplayable. Otherwise we will be having players wade 3 feet into the water to save a shot.

That's funny you and I disagree about golf OB. I always felt it was too punishing. That moving up with a shot was enough of a penalty. You're likely chipping in many of these instances next to OB stakes/lines as well. It's not like saving par is going to be a normal occurrence.

 

[Steve West]

We could do OMD bingo with these threads he starts. The different squares could be things like, "OMD calls someone a troll" or "OMD completely misunderstands a post" or "ru4or gets annoyed" etc. etc.

"Argumentum ad hominem."

"OMD's ideas are ignored."

"Multiple posters jump on the anti-OMD bandwagon to look cool without adding anything to the actual discussion."


Bingo.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Did you know the PGA tour pros refuse to play any course where there is in-course out of bounds?

Don't care.

 

[dmoore1998]

Throwing a disc in the water is not OB no matter how many times disc golfer or the PDGA wants to say. Water is a hazard and should be treated as such in disc golf. Throwing it over a road, which is a course boundary, is an acceptable use of OB BTW. It should require a re-throw in my opinion. Dropping where it went out of bounds (disc golf OB) has always been how ball golf treats hazards rather than OB. Why not use the same terminologies? It would only add to the appeal of the game.

Did you know the PGA tour pros refuse to play any course where there is in-course out of bounds?

Are you claiming that no PGA tour pros played the 2019 British Open which was on a course somewhat famous for having in-course out of bounds?

 

[ejvogie]

I personally agree with the Old man...

Color me surprised :|




QUIT. TRYING. TO. MAKE. DISC. GOLF. INTO. GOLF.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Color me surprised :|




QUIT. TRYING. TO. MAKE. DISC. GOLF. INTO. GOLF.

They are similar sports and golf does a few things better. Wouldn't it be wise to take things they do right and implement them for the good of the game?

 

[oldmandiscer]

"Argumentum ad hominem."

"OMD's ideas are ignored."

"Multiple posters jump on the anti-OMD bandwagon to look like fools without adding anything to the actual discussion."


Bingo.

You're right.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Are you claiming that no PGA tour pros played the 2019 British Open which was on a course somewhat famous for having in-course out of bounds?

Ask Rory and the other players if they were happy about it or if it was thought of as carnival golf. It's not something that is usually in effect on that 1st hole anyways. It was a good example how improvised OB is a really bad idea. Maybe a disc golfer got a hold of the British Open TD job or something? In seriousness, it is something the PGA Tour does their best to avoid.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Ask Rory and the other players if they were happy about it or if it was thought of as carnival golf. It's not something that is usually in effect on that 1st hole anyways. It was a good example how improvised OB is a really bad idea. Maybe a disc golfer got a hold of the British Open TD job or something? In seriousness, it is something the PGA Tour does their best to avoid.

You're right that they rarely play courses that have in course OB or courses that are built through residential areas. I've hit my share of houses in my life where the Tour would never play because the design isn't up to par.

My home course had lots of houses in play if you were to hit a bad shot and thus OB as well. I guess that's why I got annoyed by the OB rule as it was in play nearly every hole. Yeah it's rare when you land in OB it takes a really poor shot but it's a severe penalty as well. I did manage once to tie my buddy when he pressed on the 18th though. I hit OB but then still took a bogey. He was pretty upset with that one, lol.

 

[dreadlock86]

your beefs seem to be less about the rules and more about where these two sports are at in their development.

yeah, no $hit your local dg courses aren't up to par in terms of design compared to ball golf. what percentage of dg courses are designed by someone considered a professional designer within the sport? how many people who throw discs have ever played on such a course? even many well-known and well-respected courses in the sport were designed by "non-professionals".

 

[wolfhaley]

Tiny white balls and the size queen need to get a room already. They can discuss shaft length regulations and such there. Maybe wash each others balls or compare strokes. OMD likes it in the rough. BGC likes it in the rough. Nothing is OB for these guys. Steve can film and "par" can be the safety word. Can't we just ball golf gag these threads now. :wall:

End this nonsense now please. It's getting out of hand, gimmicky, if you will.

 

[zenbot]

You're right that they rarely play courses that have in course OB or courses that are built through residential areas. I've hit my share of houses in my life where the Tour would never play because the design isn't up to par.

My home course had lots of houses in play if you were to hit a bad shot and thus OB as well. I guess that's why I got annoyed by the OB rule as it was in play nearly every hole. Yeah it's rare when you land in OB it takes a really poor shot but it's a severe penalty as well. I did manage once to tie my buddy when he pressed on the 18th though. I hit OB but then still took a bogey. He was pretty upset with that one, lol.

Do you even like disc golf? It doesn't seem like you do.

 

[DavidSauls]

I suppose it's inaccurate to call features on some disc golf holes "out of bounds", when they're still on the property.

But of course, as we do so we're calling those course segments "holes", when there are no holes involved.

 

[oldmandiscer]

your beefs seem to be less about the rules and more about where these two sports are at in their development.

yeah, no $hit your local dg courses aren't up to par in terms of design compared to ball golf. what percentage of dg courses are designed by someone considered a professional designer within the sport? how many people who throw discs have ever played on such a course? even many well-known and well-respected courses in the sport were designed by "non-professionals".

I would say that is definitely part of it. That along with the courses the pro's play which are mostly terrible and way too easy so they add fake OB everywhere to try and make it legitimate, but just ends up being a complete clown show.