Hyzer Flip Reversed?

[KDinIN]

So this might be a stupid question, but I am going to ask it anyway, because it seems like a good idea.

I understand the concept (though the execution of is another story entirely) of hyzer flipping a disc. You take an understable disc, you release it on a hyzer, and the natural tendency to turn will bring the disc from hyzer to flat and let it fly straight. When I throw RHBH I struggle with release angle all the time, so the fact I can't do this well, isn't shocking.

Here is my question though. Could the same thing work in reverse? As a RHFH thrower, I have had some of my best drives by taking a high speed US disc (katana) and releasing it on a bit of an anhyzer just to overemphasize the s-curve flight path. Could I take a OS disc, throw it on an Anhyzer, and will it pop up (down?) flat and fly straight? I can't say I have tried this, I was just thinking, "Hey I can't hyzer flip, maybe I can try to anhyzer flip something with a forehand toss." Am I nuts, or does this work?

 

[gradus]

Nuts

 

[bcr123psu]

What you're looking for is called a flex shot.

 

[DougCrawford]

It won't really flip down to flat, you have to find the right height and angle to give the disc time to fight out of the anhyzer. Too much height and it will stall out, not enough and it's gonna hold the anny into the ground and cut roll.

 

[notroman]

I understand what you're asking. To answer your question, not really. Think of disc flight as two phases:

1. High speed turn
2. Low speed fade

High speed turn is a gauge on how much turn a disc will have with different release speeds (assuming constant spin). A more understable disc will turn more, a more stable disc is more resistant to turn. A lot of your overstable discs that you forehand are resistant to turn.

Low speed fade is what happens to a disc once it runs out of spin... A disc with a lot of low speed fade will want to find the ground fast and will begin to nose dive (thus changing the angle of the disc, which takes it in the specified direction aka fade). A disc with little low speed fade tends to stay pretty neutral and not change angles as much which would cause it to not deviate from trajectory as much when it runs out of spin.

So back to your point... Yes, you can release a less stable disc on a hyzer and have the high speed turn cause it to flip to flat and go straight. No, you cant throw a more overstable disc on an anhyzer and have it "anhyzer flip" to straight because, as we mentioned, those discs are RESISTANT to turn, thus they hold the initial angle of release. What will happen with the more overstable disc is the low speed fade will kick in sooner which will pull the disc out of the anhyzer release, but it will also cause it to continue changing angles as it fades and finds the ground. You will get an S-flight pattern instead of a straight pattern.

Hope that helped.

 

[KDinIN]

Nuts

I am okay that this was the first response.

To the rest of you, thank you! I appreciate the very informative responses. It has been a few years since I have been able to play regularly, so picking up my bag from two years ago, I find myself going, "What was it I used to do with this?" more than I care to admit.

Another stupid question:

So a flippy disc is one that is more prone to turn? Since an OS disc is resistant to turn, and a US is prone to it, does that mean all flippy discs are US? Or how should I be using the term flippy?

 

[Jax11]

Flippy = Understable in my book. I use the terms interchangeably

 

[jesseleereed]

I am okay that this was the first response.

To the rest of you, thank you! I appreciate the very informative responses. It has been a few years since I have been able to play regularly, so picking up my bag from two years ago, I find myself going, "What was it I used to do with this?" more than I care to admit.

Another stupid question:

So a flippy disc is one that is more prone to turn? Since an OS disc is resistant to turn, and a US is prone to it, does that mean all flippy discs are US? Or how should I be using the term flippy?

You shouldn't be using it, lol. "Flippy" is a stupid word. The Big-arms throw us discs too hard and get a "turn & burn" because they can't power-down enough to throw a finess shot so they lable the disc as "too flippy", but most times it's just operator error, lol. "Too flippy" is code for "I can throw a country mile, but that's my best trick".

 

[Pwingles]

You shouldn't be using it, lol. "Flippy" is a stupid word. The Big-arms throw us discs too hard and get a "turn & burn" because they can't power-down enough to throw a finess shot so they lable the disc as "too flippy", but most times it's just operator error, lol. "Too flippy" is code for "I can throw a country mile, but that's my best trick".

this post, its bad

 

[whitefedora]

Flippy is understable. Correct.

To sum up the flex forehand question. The problem is that you are getting from anhyzer to flat via fade and there is no reason for the disc to stay at flat rather than just pass it up and go towards the ground. Hyzerflips work great because you go past the amount of spin the disc can handle and it (hopefully) stabilizes at the optimal amount of spin. As it slows down even more it goes into less spin than the disc needs to stay up and fades towards the ground.

 

[ilmcgee]

What you're looking for is called a flex shot.

This

 

[whitefedora]

Kind of. A flex shot makes an S shape though. He's asking about trying to throw straight starting with an Anny release. You can make tight S turns (flex shots) but you are not going to get lasers like you can with a perfectly executed hyzerflip.

 

[jesseleereed]

this post, its bad

How so? It's an observation based on over 25 years of playing and interaction with other players. Tell me why you think I'm wrong. opcorn:

 

[INTP]

Hyzer flip is a hyzer start, slight anhyzer during some of it's flight, and hyzer finish. The disc turning/flipping over is a struggle against the way it wants to go, so you're literally gaining distance as that resolves.
Starting anny means no hyzer start. You've only got two angles, anny to hyzer. Disc doesn't do any 'struggling' that gets you distance.

 

[ThrowBot]

If you're getting a disc up to speed over level ground (barring any odd wind shifts), the flight of the disc consists of high-speed turn followed by low-speed fade. In between those phases there's a cross-over point where the disc is not rolling to the left or the right (as viewed in the direction that the disc is flying).

The point of the straight "hyzer flip" shot is that it uses the high-speed turn early in the flight to get the disc into a neutral position (flat). When the high-speed turn phase of the flight is done, it leaves the disc in that flat/straight flight orientation (until the low-speed fade comes into play). With the right combination of stability and speed, that straight portion of the flight can go on for a while.

You can't achieve the same result if you start on an anhyzer angle because the phase of flight that brings the disc back to neutral/straight is the low-speed fade...so there's nothing after that, the disc is just fading out. You don't get to utilize the straight portion that comes between the high-speed and low-speed phases. In some weird circumstances you might be able to get the disc out of the low speed fade and into straight flight, like if you throw a downhill bomber where the disc is actually gaining speed, or if for some odd reason the disc suddenly sees a lot more headwind than it was experiencing when the fade brought the disc to level.

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

The confusion arises from the term 'overstable' which sound like the opposite of understable when, in fact, a disc can only be more or less understable - there is no overstable. It sometimes looks like overstable is a 'thing' because a disc with minimal understability thrown with insufficient speed will fade almost immediately without ever getting high speed turn. It also looks like overstability when a disc has monster fade. Stability (Turn) goes from zero (minimal understability) to -5, (maximum understability). There is no overstability. Anyone pitching a disc with a +1 or higher Turn is selling snakeoil.

 

[DG_player]

The confusion arises from the term 'overstable' which sound like the opposite of understable when, in fact, a disc can only be more or less understable - there is no overstable. It sometimes looks like overstable is a 'thing' because a disc with minimal understability thrown with insufficient speed will fade almost immediately without ever getting high speed turn. It also looks like overstability when a disc has monster fade. Stability (Turn) goes from zero (minimal understability) to -5, (maximum understability). There is no overstability. Anyone pitching a disc with a +1 or higher Turn is selling snakeoil.

That makes absolutely no sense. It's a completely subjective term and measurement with no uniformly defined scale. How can you say it's wrong when it doesn't even really measure anything?

That would be like going into an Asian restaurant and saying, you can't have spicy level 10, 9 is the hottest!

 

[Pbmercil]

The confusion arises from the term 'overstable' which sound like the opposite of understable when, in fact, a disc can only be more or less understable - there is no overstable. It sometimes looks like overstable is a 'thing' because a disc with minimal understability thrown with insufficient speed will fade almost immediately without ever getting high speed turn. It also looks like overstability when a disc has monster fade. Stability (Turn) goes from zero (minimal understability) to -5, (maximum understability). There is no overstability. Anyone pitching a disc with a +1 or higher Turn is selling snakeoil.

This is flat wrong. But also not why I stopped into this thread.



It is 100% possible to use a more stable to overstable disc thrown with a little anhyzer to get a dead flat flight path. Its REALLY hard, but it is totally doable. The biggest thing is height control. You need the disc to hit the ground before it has had enough time to fade back out. There are some top guys who make money with this shot as a bread and butter. Doss with his Z preds and forces comes to mind but there are others as well. Certainly the hyzer flip is the more common straight travelling fairway line, but the straight anhyzer with an OS disc is a thing.

 

[BirdieMachine]

I use flippy for disc that flip.

 

[armiller]

In my book (which will get corrected, I'm sure), "flippy" means turn in the initial phase of flight, aka "high speed turn" as someone else mentioned. Of discs I've thrown, the Nuke SS, Daedalus, and a beat-up DX Leopard all come to mind.

For the OP, I suppose I disagree with your example of using the Katana. I throw lots of Katana forehand shots for good distance, and it has way too much high speed turn for me to be able to throw a "flex shot" as you describe. For me this will turn into a forehand roller or a forehand turnover shot, unless I tone down the speed quite a bit. Instead of using lower effort with a Katana, I disc down to something like a star Teebird. Of course, there are all kinds of Katanas out there, and I haven't thrown them all!