That wasn't an argument, I was being facetious. I like the rule as is.
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Interference or not?
- Thread starter sqatch
- Start date
That wasn't an argument, I was being facetious. I like the rule as is.
I believe that in every one of my examples, I tended toward calling a courtesy violation so I avoid the interference/not interference legalism.
geoblime
Bogey Member
Here's my take. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this.
Once a person releases a disc all items and people become "part" of the course while the disc is still in motion. My bag was there before I released the disc, just like yours was. Why would we move an object on the course? I agree with people who say "ask for it to be moved prior to the putt". If you're worried, then ask. But to say things need to be moved after the shot has been taken isn't correct (in my opinion).
What if you're putting and the disc starts to roll my way. It's slowing down as it reaches my bag, obviously going to hit, but probably going to stop right there anyways without help. As I go to pick up my bag the very bottom corner ever so slightly nicks the disc and send it down the hill even further. Be it 5 more feet or 100 more ft (we know they don't need much help to get going). I tried to do the "right" thing but it ended up creating more of a problem. What then? Was that intentional on my behalf? Yes. But not to make your disc go down the hill, just to get out of the way.
That's why once someone has putted I don't move. For their disc or mine.
Once a person releases a disc all items and people become "part" of the course while the disc is still in motion. My bag was there before I released the disc, just like yours was. Why would we move an object on the course? I agree with people who say "ask for it to be moved prior to the putt". If you're worried, then ask. But to say things need to be moved after the shot has been taken isn't correct (in my opinion).
What if you're putting and the disc starts to roll my way. It's slowing down as it reaches my bag, obviously going to hit, but probably going to stop right there anyways without help. As I go to pick up my bag the very bottom corner ever so slightly nicks the disc and send it down the hill even further. Be it 5 more feet or 100 more ft (we know they don't need much help to get going). I tried to do the "right" thing but it ended up creating more of a problem. What then? Was that intentional on my behalf? Yes. But not to make your disc go down the hill, just to get out of the way.
That's why once someone has putted I don't move. For their disc or mine.
^^^^ This. Bingo!
Carnavas
Eagle Member
bradharris mentioned the bag becoming part of the course on the fourth post in this thread, so no need to be surprised
geoblime
Bogey Member
Ha! So true. I'm a little less surprised now...
Splarg
Newbie
I hate if I'm saying something that's already been said, but would there be a penalty in this situation...
Putting on a hillside, Player A is doing a straddle putt from about 25 feet. He releases the disc and it hits the cage and begins rolling. At no point have his feet moved from when releasing the disc. He stands there without moving a muscle and watches the putt as it hits the cage and then rolls in his direction where it strikes his non-moved foot. At no point did he make any motion to stop the disc, but his complete inaction resulted in stopping it from rolling further. As I understand the rule, this was not a penalty as he did not make an action to stop the disc. Am I correct here?
Putting on a hillside, Player A is doing a straddle putt from about 25 feet. He releases the disc and it hits the cage and begins rolling. At no point have his feet moved from when releasing the disc. He stands there without moving a muscle and watches the putt as it hits the cage and then rolls in his direction where it strikes his non-moved foot. At no point did he make any motion to stop the disc, but his complete inaction resulted in stopping it from rolling further. As I understand the rule, this was not a penalty as he did not make an action to stop the disc. Am I correct here?
Guarantee some will disagree, but I would penalize the player. To me, non-action can be intentional interference if the player has time to take action to avoid contact with the disc. A disc rolling 25 feet, to me, would take enough time that the player could clear himself from its path.
Bring on the ball golfites bragging about how much better their interference rule is because it doesn't judge intent.
KniceZ
Double Eagle Member
Wouldn't this issue be reduced if they added a rule that bags not be placed inside the circle? Likelihood of hitting the bag goes way down.
It's like if we didn't read the thread and we're starting from the beginning
Splarg
Newbie
I just followed one of the links in the beginning and read that whole thing. Looks like the best answer was it would "maybe" be a courtesy violation. I would love to see this cleared up.
geoblime
Bogey Member
"Maybe" is the problem. Depending on who you ask it would be ruled differently. That's a major problem... a rule book which allows interpretation.
Harrishabitat
PDGA Numbers 60630 AND 34207
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:clap:
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Earlier today I asked the RC to produce a QA with clarification on this.
jjpitt29
Birdie Member
I swear this was addressed better in past rule books.
Once the player releases the disc, they become a spectator like anyone else. At that point they are expected to move out of the way like anyone else. If you have reasonable time to move out of the way of a moving disc, you are expected to do so.
If you throw a shot and it hits a tree 5 feet infront of you and bounces back and hits you that would be faster then you could probably react. No penalty.
Watching a disc roll 25 feet after hitting the the basket, you have time to move and would be expected to do so.
I'm going to keep looking, like I said, I think this was addressed much better in the past.
Once the player releases the disc, they become a spectator like anyone else. At that point they are expected to move out of the way like anyone else. If you have reasonable time to move out of the way of a moving disc, you are expected to do so.
If you throw a shot and it hits a tree 5 feet infront of you and bounces back and hits you that would be faster then you could probably react. No penalty.
Watching a disc roll 25 feet after hitting the the basket, you have time to move and would be expected to do so.
I'm going to keep looking, like I said, I think this was addressed much better in the past.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
The overriding concept to honor would be NOT to move unless the shot physically threatens you. Rollaways do not. Take the cue from the recent rule change that does not allow you to move anything in front of your lie that showed up during the round (like a tree branch dropping just before you throw). You essentially play the course as it is other than, and this is important, having the option to reposition players and their equipment. Other players in the group have that right in addition to the current thrower.
So, once the table is set, everyone should freeze if a shot accidentally comes your way including not moving your equipment. However, should a person move reflexively, they should also not be penalized. The only penalty that should ever be applied would be a player who appears to deliberately move or move their equipment directly in line of the disc's current trajectory.
So, once the table is set, everyone should freeze if a shot accidentally comes your way including not moving your equipment. However, should a person move reflexively, they should also not be penalized. The only penalty that should ever be applied would be a player who appears to deliberately move or move their equipment directly in line of the disc's current trajectory.
jjpitt29
Birdie Member
From the 1990 rules.
C. Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc, or consciously moves a thrown disc
at rest or a marker, other than by the action of a competitively thrown disc, will receive a two-throw
penalty if observed by any two players or an official,
I think this addresses this issue better, but probably a great thing to add to the q and a. Of course you can argue what consciously means and intent etc... But I think most of us can agree if you are watching a putt roll back at you, you can consciously get out of the way.
Better question would be... Player misses putt, puts his head down/covers his eyes/etc so he doesn't see the putt rolling and then hits him...
C. Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc, or consciously moves a thrown disc
at rest or a marker, other than by the action of a competitively thrown disc, will receive a two-throw
penalty if observed by any two players or an official,
I think this addresses this issue better, but probably a great thing to add to the q and a. Of course you can argue what consciously means and intent etc... But I think most of us can agree if you are watching a putt roll back at you, you can consciously get out of the way.
Better question would be... Player misses putt, puts his head down/covers his eyes/etc so he doesn't see the putt rolling and then hits him...
biscoe
* Ace Member *
Guarantee some will disagree, but I would penalize the player. To me, non-action can be intentional interference if the player has time to take action to avoid contact with the disc. A disc rolling 25 feet, to me, would take enough time that the player could clear himself from its path.
Bring on the ball golfites bragging about how much better their interference rule is because it doesn't judge intent.
i once witnessed one of the authors of disc golf's rule book penalize a player for failure to move his equipment out of the path of a rollaway disc. this was probably 1997 or 1998 at Earlewood.
jjpitt29
Birdie Member
I understand the concept, but not sure I would agree with that in principle. I think we've debated this before...
Can you find anything in the rules that addresses it? I've looked and I really can't seem to find anything that would support either conclusion.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
When players are in a certain position before throwing, they have "intentionally" taken those positions. Any movement after the throw is released could be seen as intentional. Staying in place should not be seen as an intentional choice since it was already made before knowledge of where the disc would fly and not moving around when someone is throwing is part of the internal courtesy of the game itself.
It's in the hands of the RC so we'll hope to hear from them within a week or so.
It's in the hands of the RC so we'll hope to hear from them within a week or so.
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