Internet wisdom?

[slowRoll]

Current conventional internet wisdom is that we should disc down to improve our game in the long run. Working towards learning how to throw our putters 250'-300', our Mids 300'-350', and our fairway drivers 350' - 380'. The numbers vary depending upon who is telling people this, but you get the general idea. This sounds like a great idea because thrown properly a Wizard can fly 300'. A Roc can fly well over 300', and of course a Teebird can fly over 400' as well.

But did you know that the very best discgolfers in the world think this is nonsense? A good friend of mine recently had seperate 1 on 1 private lessons from Ken Climo in FL and David Feldberg while he was here in TN. He spent almost 3 hours with each of them and both of them said the same thing. If the shot is anywhere close to over 200' away they throw their mids not their putters. They also switch to fairway drivers at distances substantially less than what the conventional internet wisdom suggests. In other words; for better control and reliability they disc up, where we all are being told to disc down. For Dave especially, it was all about reliability. These men make their living playing this game and do everything they can to improve their odds of winning. They take what they do very seriously, so when I heard this my ears perked up a little. I just thought that we might ought to take a moment to discuss this.

Your thoughts?

 

[JoshEpoo]

I've also heard Feldberg talk about taking the flippiest beat to crap DX discs out on windy days and practicing with them. Performing at top level on tour and practicing your mechanics and shot selection are two different things.

 

[bholy08]

There is no such thing as intenet wisdom

 

[ambroze]

Craig (slowRoll) - I throw what I feel will get me there most accurately. I could care less if I'm on a hole where others are throwing their putters on a 270ft shot (hole #15 Sharp Springs for example), I'm throwing my driver. I think that's sometimes people trying to show off their power. Well I don't have any or anything to prove.

 

[Mr. America]

I've always thought of the whole discing down thing as practice only. When you want to play a round that the score matters on, why on earth would you use discs that don't give you the best chance to shoot the best score?

 

[Mind Expansi0n]

Mistake 1 = Believing what you read on this board.

Mistake 2 = Not realizing 'internet wisdom' is a hilarious oxymoron.

The reality is people like to lie, exagerate, and play the expert online. With car sites, it's things like the size of their engine, top speed, and 0-60 time. Here it is "I only drive with putters!", discing down, and flight differences in discs depending on what stamp they have on them. :thmbup:

 

[Oklahyzer]

I think a lot of people completely misunderstand the point of discing down. It's to develop clean form - not to achieve max distance goals with particular discs or to limit disc selection or usage on the course. I think their (Climo's and Feldberg's) response is very predictable, and accurate for people with their level of skill and experience, because they already have clean form. It's a different level of mastery of the sport.

The goal is improvement via clean form. Slower discs teach mistakes better than faster discs. By being *able* to push slower discs out to farther distances, you have an indicator that your form is good. When that is achieved, then you can realize the benefits of faster discs and use them to their full potential. It has nothing to do with which disc should be used when or for how far.

 

[RoundWounds]

In other words; for better control and reliability they disc up, where we all are being told to disc down.

They do this because yes, they NEED reliability and consistency to win tournaments (and make money).

But, they CAN bomb their putters out 300' and their mids 350', and that ability is what allows them to bomb drivers 500, 600' +.

Discing down is a form of practice and technique building, no one has ever suggested that it should be used for tournament play.

 

[imoser_me]

That is what I thought about all this you have to throw this far to go to the next disc BS. I don't throw putters off the tee because of preferece, but the few times I have thrown them for distance, I can hit 250'. I have been able to hit just over 300' with my mids. Fairways (strikers and rivers) about 350'. High speed stuff up to 425' (Bolt).

Ranges that I use this discs are different because I don't want to use full on throws for everything. 80-85% seems like a good solid throw that I can perform over and over again without much strain.

I jump putt out to 75'. I use mids out to 275'. I use fairways out to 325'. I use distance drivers for everything else (even those have ranges). I know that there are different shots that require different discs in different conditions, but my example is simplistic. I like throwing lower type shots as well, not letting the disc get more than 15 feet off the ground.

I have seen a guy hit 350' consistently with a Wizard, but he had to throw the thing 100' in the air and it took like 10 seconds to finally fall. I would rather throw a Havoc not as hard and let it slowly hyzer to 350'.

All in all, you don't have to throw like Will Schusterick and bomb discs at amazing distances. Honestly, fairways out to 300' should be good enough distance for most courses to be a good player. The main difference is accuracy and consistency.

 

[JTacoma03]

Your thoughts?

As I've been saying almost since I got on this site, the "discing down" phenomenon is WAAAAY overused. Many people are selling it as a cure-all for your game and it's just not.

I disced down for 4 months. It was with a specific purpose, to clean up my release and learn to use my mid-ranges more effectively. It accomplished both. However, when I put drivers back in my bag I was throwing my mids farther! You have to re-adjust to faster discs, it doesn't just make you better automatically. I had to spend another 6-8 months learning how to throw distance lines with drivers since I had been practicing control mid lines.

Here's the other missed connection between us and pros. Most rec/int-level players are trying to throw the same 3 shots with multiple discs. Learning a large shot repitoire is something that separates higher levels from lower (among other factors) and that's the perspective Climo and Feldberg are speaking from. They know infinite combinations of shot + disc from experience. Most people discing down are trying to learn to throw straight correctly (which they should)...but again discing down is not a cure all. It's a step in a process.

Finally, remember feldberg has a unique game. He rarely throws midranges. His short game comfort zone is fairway drivers...so there's that.

All in all, I'm not against discing down. At risk of sounding like a broken record, I think it's overused and oversold, and I think that's what they're reacting to.

(plus anyone who says "disc down for reliability"...especially in wind...is plain wrong.)

 

[mattdabbs]

I think a lot of people completely misunderstand the point of discing down. It's to develop clean form - not to achieve max distance goals with particular discs or to limit disc selection or usage on the course. I think their (Climo's and Feldberg's) response is very predictable, and accurate for people with their level of skill and experience, because they already have clean form. It's a different level of mastery of the sport.

The goal is improvement via clean form. Slower discs teach mistakes better than faster discs. By being *able* to push slower discs out to farther distances, you have an indicator that your form is good. When that is achieved, then you can realize the benefits of faster discs and use them to their full potential. It has nothing to do with which disc should be used when or for how far.

This is what I was thinking when I read the OP.

 

[Disc Fiend]

(plus anyone who says "disc down for reliability"...especially in wind...is plain wrong.)

Yea I disc up if the wind is real bad and throw something faster and more overstable(if the wind is blowing in my face)

 

[ReinZ_96]

Yea I disc up if the wind is real bad and throw something faster and more overstable(if the wind is blowing in my face)

exactly..i threw a pred on a 150ft hole the other day cuz i had 30mph crosswind that would have flipped every thing else i have in my bag over. But if the wind is calm, to upto about 10-15mph, under 220 ill be throwing my aviar almost everytime.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Kinda like Yoda says...

Specifically in regards to the OP: Climo's and Feldberg's "discing up" so to speak, makes sense to me if using a faster disc allows them to reach the same distance with less power. For most people, most of the time, less power translates into greater accuracy, and more consistent results.

I throw what I feel will get me there most accurately. I could care less if I'm on a hole where others are throwing their putters on a 270ft shot... I'm throwing my driver.

^this. Once you know your discs, and begin to feel comfortable with what what they do for you (and not necessarily for someone else), and what you can do with them;
• You begin to develop consistency.
• Consistency leads to confidence.
• Confidence leads to better shots.
• Better shots lead to lower scores.


I can throw my Buzzzz 250-270 on level ground, but seems to me I can do so more easily and more consistently with my drivers. So guess what I'll use?

 

[GripEnemy]

I think a lot of people completely misunderstand the point of discing down. It's to develop clean form - not to achieve max distance goals with particular discs or to limit disc selection or usage on the course. I think their (Climo's and Feldberg's) response is very predictable, and accurate for people with their level of skill and experience, because they already have clean form. It's a different level of mastery of the sport.

The goal is improvement via clean form. Slower discs teach mistakes better than faster discs. By being *able* to push slower discs out to farther distances, you have an indicator that your form is good. When that is achieved, then you can realize the benefits of faster discs and use them to their full potential. It has nothing to do with which disc should be used when or for how far.

Another +1.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

Mistake 1 = Believing what you read on this board.

Mistake 2 = Not realizing 'internet wisdom' is a hilarious oxymoron.

The reality is people like to lie, exagerate, and play the expert online. With car sites, it's things like the size of their engine, top speed, and 0-60 time. Here it is "I only drive with putters!", discing down, and flight differences in discs depending on what stamp they have on them. :thmbup:

Internet wisdom 101. Do not under any circumstances listen to the above poster.



..you have been warned.

 

[garublador]

I think a lot of people completely misunderstand the point of discing down. It's to develop clean form - not to achieve max distance goals with particular discs or to limit disc selection or usage on the course. I think their (Climo's and Feldberg's) response is very predictable, and accurate for people with their level of skill and experience, because they already have clean form. It's a different level of mastery of the sport.

The goal is improvement via clean form. Slower discs teach mistakes better than faster discs. By being *able* to push slower discs out to farther distances, you have an indicator that your form is good. When that is achieved, then you can realize the benefits of faster discs and use them to their full potential. It has nothing to do with which disc should be used when or for how far.

Dude nailed it.

Think of it this way. If you can throw a putter 300' and you step up to a 300' hole with whatever layout, you have the option of using every disc in your bag to get there. If you throw your putter 200' you'll be limited to your distance drivers. Who do you think will encounter more 300' holes they can deuce comfortably? It isn't always about powering down, either. Many times just throwing a hyzer with a faster disc instead of a straight shot with a slower disc will be more reliable, but they both require the same power.

FWIW, I've never thought that throwing only putters or mids until a certain point is that great of an idea. I have, however, found from experience that there are many parts of your throw that are much more difficult to learn with speed 9+ discs. Getting actual snap (the wrist extension that lets you throw those ridiculous distances) is easier with slower discs. There were many times when I'd go to the field and "half hit" (putters 300'-320, mids 330'-350', fairway drivers ~400') putters maybe half the time, mids about the same, fairway drivers a third of the time and anything speed 9+ would only go farther like a tenth of the time. It's just harder to feel it with those wider rimmed discs.

 

[Triflusal]

I think that feldberg and climo are wrong in that they put some sort of artificial cap on what distances they throw their discs. There are plenty of holes 350' long where a putter is the best choice, and plenty of holes that are 150' long that a firebird is the best choice. Throw the disc that is best for the shot. Hole length may be a factor but there are other factors to take account of.

This being said discing down is for the practice field and practice rounds, not tournaments that mean something. It is for long term development and good for people who have OAT in their throws. It isn't a magic distance button. You have to actively be analyzing your form on video and asking others to analyze it to get more distance. If you don't do that the only thing discing down is going to accomplish is getting rid of OAT. If you haven't done these things and complain that discing down doesn't work for getting distance, its because you did it wrong.

 

[simpletwist]

Internet Wisdom???

Isn't that an oxymoron like Jumbo Shrimp or Military Intelligence?

 

[GripEnemy]

Internet Wisdom???

Isn't that an oxymoron like Jumbo Shrimp or Military Intelligence?

Paradox, if I'm not mistaken.