Is it ethical for pros to play in their local tournaments?

[rhatton1]

This I don't understand. Looking at it as 'losing' the money sounds pretty depressing. I think of it as money spent as a privilege to play in a tournament as opposed to lost gambling or something.

Preach.

I did a survey with our players to see what they actually turned up to tournaments for.

I was so gladdened by the results, the highest positive answers by far were "because competitions are fun" "getting PDGA ratings" and "because I like playing"

Winning money/cash/merch was one of the least important considerations for players to play. Now, TBF, this is really just a series of am events as we don't have enough good players over here to have a real pro scene but it was still really refreshing to see that most UK based players play in tournaments because they just want to play and have fun.

Whining that someone better than you comes along and wins the only division available to them is just odd.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I think the original point about the MA40 comment, is that those guys aren't playing MP40?

I interpreted his sentence to mean some MA40 and MA50 players were too talented to play in age-protected divisions and should instead be playing regular Am-1. He said they "refuse to play advanced" if I paraphrased from memory correctly.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I interpreted his sentence to mean some MA40 and MA50 players were too talented to play in age-protected divisions and should instead be playing regular Am-1. He said they "refuse to play advanced" if I paraphrased from memory correctly.

I think both arguments are out there. Either way I don't get it, especially when the comment is about a group of guys playing MA40. We have a group here and I love playing with and against them. In that group are guys that range from just turned 40 to a guy that is low 50's. Some play a LOT of tournaments, others like me only play 2 or 3 a year. We like each other, we get along, we have fun, and someone will win. Its a semi-local group a few of them I only see at tournaments, some I rarely see but sometimes casually and a few I play with regularly. I don't see why any or all of this group should feel pressure to play in a different division. None are super serious but all like to work on their game. Merch has nothing to do with enjoyment of winning.
One guy I have played against played AM1 in all of the local tournaments, maybe because he was winning MA40 and wanted to challenge himself more, or I think it was for more points in a larger field for Am worlds where he competed in MA40. But yeah... none of the other guys had a goal like Am worlds we are just trying to score the best we can when we play. Having a 910 rated guy younger than me tell me I should be playing AM1 or MP40 because of a win in MA40 is silly to me.

 

[brutalbrutus]

??? Is this a serious question? Try playing MA40 or MA50 in SC. SC is loaded with baggers in those divisions who refuse to play against players with the same skill level.

I interpreted his sentence to mean some MA40 and MA50 players were too talented to play in age-protected divisions and should instead be playing regular Am-1. He said they "refuse to play advanced" if I paraphrased from memory correctly.

I think you need some ginkoba memory formula...

 

[brutalbrutus]

Having a 910 rated guy younger than me tell me I should be playing AM1 or MP40 because of a win in MA40 is silly to me.

In my comment, I thought I made it clear that this isn't about " a win "...

 

[DiscFifty]

Funny no matter how many threads you are told that it's possible to be older, and good, and want to play with others the same age your still don't believe it and think it's about the merch.

To each his own but your assumptions about other people's motivations are wrong.

My wording of "refuse" to play was wrong. I should have said "prefer to play". And while I certainly respect anyone's opinion that I am wrong, I've seen too many tournaments where there will be a few 940,950 rated guys playing against a field of much lower rated players. While I would hope winning more plastic is not their main motivation, but if it's just the hunt for more ego wins, I would hope that is not the case either. And if it's truly about playing competitive disc golf why wouldn't they play in advanced? Hey.. if you think beating a bunch of low rated old guys (or easily coming in 1st-5th) is a fun day of paid pdga disc golf, more power to you. While I personally have beaten much higher rated old guys several times, if I ever get past 935 I am moving straight to advanced regardless of my age. I see no personal satisfaction playing in a division where I am in the minority having an advanced rating and the majority is rec or less.

 

[DiscFifty]

Sexton used to show up to our putt nights to collect lunch money and people gladly handed it over. People pay money at some events to be on cards with these pros.

Heck yah! I consider it like getting lessons, sometimes much cheaper.

 

[DiscFifty]

Third, run ratings based leagues with cash payouts in the higher or all divisions. This is allowed even in PDGA leagues without ams losing their am status since payouts are not reported.

Interesting, never knew that. Thank you.

 

[DiscFifty]

If you are one of those fringe pros that is complaining that better pros are taking your money then you are probably delusional in the first place. Being a fringe pro my whole career, there has never been a time where I wouldnt play an event because the competition was too good.

Its pretty simple, if you dont want to get beat then get better.

The op should be happy he doesn't live in Texas where a very active pro by the name of Emerson Keith could show up at any time and crush your chance of winning your local c-tier.

 

[DiscFifty]

Funny "its not about the merch" but no one is mentioning MP40 or MP50. If it's not about the merch, more oldsters would play in those.

yes...Yes...YES.

 

[DiscFifty]

So you think that there are less highly rated players because of pro/am purgatory? This as well doesnt make sense. There are not more highly rated people because not everybody is great at disc golf. Ratings directly correlate to how good you are at disc golf, not how much money someone better then you "takes away from you"

It's very hard for local pros to get over 1000 rated due to the field typically not having enough higher rated players. In the DFW area we have quite a few 970+ rated players that could give players much higher rated a run for their money.

!#$%^ sorry.. I should have realized and put all of my replies in 1 message.

 

[Horsman]

It's very hard for local pros to get over 1000 rated due to the field typically not having enough higher rated players. In the DFW area we have quite a few 970+ rated players that could give players much higher rated a run for their money.

!#$%^ sorry.. I should have realized and put all of my replies in 1 message.

Youre good, this fits with what some of us believe in that if any of us were to go on tour then our rating would go up just from playing in events with more highly rated players.

 

[DavidSauls]

My wording of "refuse" to play was wrong. I should have said "prefer to play". And while I certainly respect anyone's opinion that I am wrong, I've seen too many tournaments where there will be a few 940,950 rated guys playing against a field of much lower rated players. While I would hope winning more plastic is not their main motivation, but if it's just the hunt for more ego wins, I would hope that is not the case either. And if it's truly about playing competitive disc golf why wouldn't they play in advanced? Hey.. if you think beating a bunch of low rated old guys (or easily coming in 1st-5th) is a fun day of paid pdga disc golf, more power to you. While I personally have beaten much higher rated old guys several times, if I ever get past 935 I am moving straight to advanced regardless of my age. I see no personal satisfaction playing in a division where I am in the minority having an advanced rating and the majority is rec or less.

Why not ask the weaker MA40/50s, why they don't go play Rec? Why are the better players responsible for the inequality?

I know many of the group of the good MA40/50s that inspired this particularly thread drift. It's a sizeable group who enjoy playing with each other, and love the stiff competition they provide. They're not doing it for profit. They're not individually dominating their division (which I would find boring). They're where they belong, and they like it.

So this group of 930-950 rated old guys like battling each other every weekend. They've pretty much plateaued; they're not moving to Advanced because they're not going to climb that ladder any further (plus, it's annoying). They're not paying extra to play pro masters. They're doing just fine, where they are. The 880-rated old guys can play in the same group, or can play in a ratings division.

 

[DiscFifty]

They're not paying extra to play pro masters. They're doing just fine, where they are.

I don't know where you play, but around here age protected is usually the same price as the pro age protected. Thank you for the comments, but overall...we agree to disagree.

 

[JC17393]

Why not ask the weaker MA40/50s, why they don't go play Rec? Why are the better players responsible for the inequality?

This is it right here. Players have as many opportunities to move down or over to find like-skilled players as they do to move up or over. If you're over-matched in a division, the solution isn't necessarily that your betters should change divisions. Perhaps it's that you should change divisions.

A wise player once said to me in explaining why he played Masters despite being capable of competing in Open that he earned the right to play Masters simply by living for 40+ years. Seems that sentiment should apply whether you're 820 rated or 930 rated or 1040 rated.

 

[DavidSauls]

I don't know where you play, but around here age protected is usually the same price as the pro age protected. Thank you for the comments, but overall...we agree to disagree.

Around here, pro divisions cost more. (Pro PDGA membership costs a little more, too).

Pro age-protected divisions tend to be small; just a couple of payers, maybe a handful. Am age-protected divisions tend to be larger; 10-15 players. (Sure, if this half-dozen people moved at once, it would remedy that, a bit).

I've heard more than one person complain that when he oved from MA40 to MP40, the atmosphere wasn't the same.

So as it is, the competition for these guys is playing other good players, who they're friends with and of equal skills,, and seeing who can beat whom on a given weekend. Ten years ago I was part of that; a decade of aging (61) and decline (854) means I can't anymore, but I know them and what they're doing. These are the specific guys that were commented about, in the MA40/50 rant.

 

[joshmo65]

This I don't understand. Looking at it as 'losing' the money sounds pretty depressing. I think of it as money spent as a privilege to play in a tournament as opposed to lost gambling or something.

Losing was probably the wrong word. Lets say the average disc golfer has $500 of disposable income. With no chance of cashing because out of town ringers come in, they can play a maximum of 10, $50 tournaments and then they are done for the year. If the ringers don't come to town and the local player can rattle off $200 worth of cashes, they can play an additional 4 tournaments each year. Multiply this by 5 or so local players, you are really affecting your entries at the end of the year.

 

[joshmo65]

So tiny didnt even see it. Rosier?

 

[Lazerface]

be better

 

[ru4por]

Why not ask the weaker MA40/50s, why they don't go play Rec? Why are the better players responsible for the inequality?

I know many of the group of the good MA40/50s that inspired this particularly thread drift. It's a sizeable group who enjoy playing with each other, and love the stiff competition they provide. They're not doing it for profit. They're not individually dominating their division (which I would find boring). They're where they belong, and they like it.

So this group of 930-950 rated old guys like battling each other every weekend. They've pretty much plateaued; they're not moving to Advanced because they're not going to climb that ladder any further (plus, it's annoying). They're not paying extra to play pro masters. They're doing just fine, where they are. The 880-rated old guys can play in the same group, or can play in a ratings division.

Same around this area. They are a handful of low to mid 900 players, that compete against one another many tournaments. There is the next group of mid to high 800 players that are pretty competitive, with one another, as well. Occasionally, one of the 800 guys pops a big round and scares the upper tier. Occasionally one of the 900 poops the bed and gets razzed by the 800 guys. A great group, they really enjoy one another.

Oddly, their motivation is exactly the same as Fifty's. Seems disingenuous to begrudge better players the right to play in the age protected ADVANCED divisions, for the exact same reasons he enjoys doing so.