Jussi Meresmaa design concepts are...'Meh'

[Understable]

Everyone seems to rave about Jussi Meresmaa designed courses however I have a friend who played the new Perth course and it was iffy. A couple of fun holes but mostly it was throwing down a golf fairway. I just watched SpinTV's description of the St. Jude's course and all the holes shown were just big hucking holes. Nothing really technical, some elevation which was what Jussi raved about as his big design concept. Even his description of the holes was about distance not really shaping shots, just launch it and don't put it in the sand traps.

I live in an area of the country that is wooded so I'm definitely bias. I've played DG on a golf course and it was fun to huck it but after 9 holes of hucking in the wide open it got to be the same thing over and over.

I appreciate he wants to design for the longest throwers in the world but for the average player (95% of the sport) these are not designed for you. My home course has a couple of 450' and a 550' and that is enough for me.

If you look at John Houck, he would probably say "But what shots are you shaping?" Jussi just has hyzer after hyzer shot.

Am I alone scratching my head and say "Meh, that doesn't look like a lot of fun if I had to play that as my home course, day after day."

 

[notroman]

My only guess is that Jussi is trying to design courses fit for media exposure right now. You can't get the camera equipment into a wooded course and you aren't going to wow people who aren't familiar with the flight of a disc by throwing accuracy shots - distance gets more excitement. Jussi is a promoter.

 

[goosefraba1]

Maybe the courses play more than just hyzer shots when you have the arm to throw them? If the course wasn't designed for your level of play, don't be surprised when it doesn't seem AS interesting when you play it. I'm not sure what you are rated.... but it is never quite as fun to play the Golds when you are a white level player.

 

[sjberry2017]

Maybe the courses play more than just hyzer shots when you have the arm to throw them? If the course wasn't designed for your level of play, don't be surprised when it doesn't seem AS interesting when you play it. I'm not sure what you are rated.... but it is never quite as fun to play the Golds when you are a white level player.

This. If you watched the Aussie Open, there were a lot of hyzers, but they were placement hyzers. It's a different style of disc golf than the wooded par 3's that we're used to. Watching the video, for someone of my skill level, I'm showing up with my bag and blasting drivers full force and still probably taking three or four shots to reach the pin.

If your name is Simon Lizotte, Paul McBeth, Jeremy Koling, however, you're probably only taking two shots on these par 4's, but neither will just be gimmes and you will have to watch the OB.

 

[Mocheez]

Those courses were designed with the upper 5% in mind on the land that he was provided. It would likely be a different story if you gave him 40 acres of wooded property on hilly terrain and told him to design a fun and challenging course for amateur players.

But I do agree with you that those courses appear to be boring / monotonous for the other 95%.

 

[The Last DJ]

I feel like the majority of the major events I've watched this year are a tape loop of pros tossing hyzer-bombs. I don't think I've made it through a full tourney video yet this year. I personally get bored seeing the same shots from everyone on the card...

 

[Mocheez]

I feel like the majority of the major events I've watched this year are a tape loop of pros tossing hyzer-bombs. I don't think I've made it through a full tourney video yet this year. I personally get bored seeing the same shots from everyone on the card...

You may find the Steady Ed videos to be a little more interesting. Delaveaga requires a lot more shot shaping compared to the other tourneys played so far this year.

 

[Understable]

My only guess is that Jussi is trying to design courses fit for media exposure right now. You can't get the camera equipment into a wooded course and you aren't going to wow people who aren't familiar with the flight of a disc by throwing accuracy shots - distance gets more excitement. Jussi is a promoter.

As a media promoter his designs make a lot of sense. Great point of view, thanks.

 

[The Last DJ]

You may find the Steady Ed videos to be a little more interesting. Delaveaga requires a lot more shot shaping compared to the other tourneys played so far this year.

Awesome! I haven't watched this year's coverage but I'm very excited to check it out. I heard Patrick Brown absolutely crushed the competition in his division! This course is definitely on my wish list...

 

[Timeetyo]

My only guess is that Jussi is trying to design courses fit for media exposure right now. You can't get the camera equipment into a wooded course and you aren't going to wow people who aren't familiar with the flight of a disc by throwing accuracy shots - distance gets more excitement. Jussi is a promoter.

You may find the Steady Ed videos to be a little more interesting. Delaveaga requires a lot more shot shaping compared to the other tourneys played so far this year.

I think this has something to do with it. Don't get me wrong - DeLa is a sweet course and it is nice to see such a variety of discs and lines off the tee........BUT.......it really stinks on the MANY holes where you can only see the first 1/3 of the flight and then you are waiting for applause to see if was a decent shot. Excellent golf....but bad for watching on video without a $$$ multi cam setup going. You don't have that issue on more open courses.

Those courses were designed with the upper 5% in mind on the land that he was provided. It would likely be a different story if you gave him 40 acres of wooded property on hilly terrain and told him to design a fun and challenging course for amateur players.

But I do agree with you that those courses appear to be boring / monotonous for the other 95%.

Also agree with this. My home course has some holes that play placement golf in relatively open land (with tons of wind). It is unique in that you can often get there with many different lines as there aren't a ton of tall trees that force a specific line and you throw over a lot of small trees / bushes. What matters though is how you can place that shot. It really messes up a lot of players as it looks so easy as they toss a big hyzer over everything....only to find out they miss the placement and are in jail throwing a thumber over the bush they parked it in.

 

[Pbmercil]

You may find the Steady Ed videos to be a little more interesting. Delaveaga requires a lot more shot shaping compared to the other tourneys played so far this year.

Dela is actually a great example of why people say open courses film better. The Master's Cup coverage is full of holes where you only see the first 40% or so of the flight and have no idea where the player finished until they step up to the next lie. Its not exactly compelling footage, though I definitely prefer wooded disc golf in general, I think it is a much better test of skill.

To the OP: Both of the courses you mention are converted ball golf courses, so that probably is part of the issue. I doubt you can make a top of the line disc golf course on a ball golf course, the fairways are just too wide. I thought the perth course looked great in tournament coverage. Maybe it plays boring in real life but it seemed like a solid test of golf skill from watching it. I know Jussi has designed a ton more courses then that in Europe. Its important to note too that the St Jude course is temporary, so its not like this is a regular course average joes will be throwing in the future. One luxury to a temporary course is that you can design it for exactly the players and event in mind because it goes away as soon as the event is over.

I agree that hyzer bomb MPO events are boring. The Memorial, Texas States, and the Glass blown were all big dumb hyzer events that I didn't care for. There are great wooded courses on the tour docket this year though. The Masters Cup was the first, but also the Maple Hill Open and the Hall of Fame Classic will be great woods golf.

For the record though, you can absolutely have a wooded course that is a great test of overall golf skill and still looks great on camera. Exhibit A:

 

[tomte]

Dela is actually a great example of why people say open courses film better. The Master's Cup coverage is full of holes where you only see the first 40% or so of the flight and have no idea where the player finished until they step up to the next lie. Its not exactly compelling footage, though I definitely prefer wooded disc golf in general, I think it is a much better test of skill.

I have to disagree. Dela is the one tournament were I really watch all the videos showing up. Because the course is so challenging that top pros do lay up instead of running puts from 60ft. Sure it is difficult to film and it is (with the current amount of cameras we have) not easy to see were the disc lands. But that is also true for the long wide open courses. As a spectator on screen you have no clue if the disc is 20ft or 70ft from the basket. But you usually can here the noise of a tree hit... Besides they only throw fast discs - which are thougher to film and see again..

A long shot sure gives you some "wow" effect. But four top pros not getting past that one tree is even more wow. Or top pros taking double bogeys without OB.

 

[Zunz]

I've played a couple of ball golf courses that put in baskets. Fun stuff, one even had carts! But great disc golf they are not. The one that leaves the course and plays half on the woods was more interesting (in Pennsylvania, the other was in LA), and that's the one with carts.
DeLa... Been there, thrown that, got the t-shirt. It's a nice course and very different for the West Coast, but here in the East it would honestly be just another course.
As for filming, I've seen a lot of 2 camera coverage for disc golf so really, shooting in the woods isn't all that hard. Honestly, I would say the commentary seems to be the worst thing about covering disc golf, not the video footage. ESPECIALLY when the one dude leaves his mic open so we get to listen to him huff and puff as he struggles to keep up on the fairways.
Played a couple of Houck courses last year, too... Dude certainly knows what he's doing. Seems to get the most out of the available property. Not the best I've seen either, but he's pretty good.

 

[corin_brown]

As for filming, I've seen a lot of 2 camera coverage for disc golf so really, shooting in the woods isn't all that hard. Honestly, I would say the commentary seems to be the worst thing about covering disc golf, not the video footage. ESPECIALLY when the one dude leaves his mic open so we get to listen to him huff and puff as he struggles to keep up on the fairways.

I don't produce MNF or anything but isn't the main problem with covering tournaments on wooded courses not the filming of the action itself but the lack of cell signal? I know Terry Miller says that's a big reason they can't broadcast certain tournaments live and that cell signal strength is the number one factor that goes into the ability to broadcast any tournament. Until the audience is big enough to justify parking a satellite truck in the Maple Hill parking lot, this is the best we can expect, I'm afraid.

Also, I'm not sure who exactly this harried & overcome commentator you're referring to is, but I'd like to state my opinion, after considering the broadcast budgets in disc golf ($0), the remuneration for the people who produce the broadcasts ($0), the relative size of the disc golf viewing audience (0), the amount of history, experience & precedent there is in broadcasting disc golf (0), that the disc golf broadcasts of tournaments this past year have been pretty amazing. I'd like to single out Terry Miller specifically. I find his broadcasts to be excellent and I enjoy his commentary quite a bit. I also like his broadcast personality, which is a unique blend: you can tell he's from the Midwest from his cheery & earnest delivery but he also likes to mix it up with some feisty rants.

I'm not sure how much better we can expect disc golf tournament broadcasts to be, given that no one watches and that there's no money in it.

 

[Zunz]

Well, just for the sake of keeping it honest... Neither the budgets nor the audience are zero.
Not saying it's bigtime production or anything, but between sponsorships, other advertising and donations, it's not like the people producing the videos are losing money by doing it.
Local tv sends out satellite trucks for turtle races. Also, I mentioned the video quality as not really being an issue. Extending the analogy another step, the Olympics don't broadcast live, they broadcast in prime time, I've seen some impressive 4k disc golf video and there are a couple of the regular broadcasters out there already using multiple cameras.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

I like GREEN.

i like the course and making it more challenging to the pros. Par 3s are so 2010...

 

[Steve West]

Jussi did an excellent good job of setting par for Open players, picking the value that did the best job of keeping all players informed about how they were doing.

 

[Flip Hyzerman]

Everyone seems to rave about Jussi Meresmaa designed courses however I have a friend who played the new Perth course and it was iffy.

Most of the raving seems to come from Discmania/Innova themselves ... it's called advertising. I can't say I've been impressed with any of his designs up to this point.

 

[Pbmercil]

but between sponsorships, other advertising and donations, it's not like the people producing the videos are losing money by doing it.

I'm virtually certain that your dead wrong about this. Unless you've got some inside info, I'm pretty sure Terry and many others are spending a LOT OF their own money on tournement coverage. MAYBE Marty McGhee Is actually earning something decent for his efforts, but the rest are doing it mostly out of love of the game.

 

[coupe]

Everyone seems to rave about Jussi Meresmaa designed courses however I have a friend who played the new Perth course and it was iffy. ...

Am I alone scratching my head and say "Meh, that doesn't look like a lot of fun if I had to play that as my home course, day after day."

Maybe your friend isn't GOOD ENOUGH to appreciate the subtleties of the of a gold level course.

M I can't say I've been impressed with any of his designs up to this point.

See above: substitute "you" for "your friend."