Ledgestone Insurance Open

[Consult20]

Added up his scores wrong. Happened to a lot of people this event with all the higher scores. I just added a new indicator on the site (p) for any scorecard penalties.

Thanks for confirming this Josh, and great idea adding the (p). But wouldn't it be more indicative to add the (p) below each specific round that was mis-counted? Or even add it in both places?

 

[udisc-josh]

Thanks for confirming this Josh, and great idea adding the (p). But wouldn't it be more indicative to add the (p) below each specific round that was mis-counted? Or even add it in both places?

Agree - doing that requires a data model change and update to statistics jobs so will take a bit longer. For now, if you click into a player profile and you can see all scorecards with penalties indicated.
ie: https://udisclive.com/players/michaeljohansen?t=silvercup

Ultimately we're hoping to eliminate addition penalties since players can verify with the udisc score before handing in the card. At the Ledgestone a lot of cards couldn't be covered live since Ams were playing and weren't free to volunteer plus there were 6 courses being used so a lot of spotters and other staff were required.

 

[Pbmercil]

can anyone give me the TLDR version of the McBeth provisional drama?

 

[Hampstead]

I am pretty sure I read somewhere on here before that the Ledgestone and BHMO rotate NT status every year...

My understanding is that BHMO started rotating NT status a few years ago with Great Lakes Open. Once Ledgestone became a big deal, I think that became the substitute for Great Lakes. Paul and the Flyers have assured us that the BHMO will remain in the NT rotation.

 

[joecoin]

Was hoping Nate Doss would keep it going, but it looks like he just ran out of gas. Still..he has been playing awesome. McBeth was incredible, really fun to watch him never slow down.

Awesome coverage, thanks to everyone who made it happen. Still some funky camera work, always strange to me to see a putt or approach shot and not have the player and the basket in the frame. Maybe that's just me though.

Yeah, I was hoping Doss would finish stronger, had a string of 5's in the final round that did him in, but nobody was gonna catch McBeth. 14 under is just too much.

 

[Consult20]

Agree - doing that requires a data model change and update to statistics jobs so will take a bit longer. For now, if you click into a player profile and you can see all scorecards with penalties indicated.
ie: https://udisclive.com/players/michaeljohansen?t=silvercup

Ultimately we're hoping to eliminate addition penalties since players can verify with the udisc score before handing in the card. At the Ledgestone a lot of cards couldn't be covered live since Ams were playing and weren't free to volunteer plus there were 6 courses being used so a lot of spotters and other staff were required.

Very cool, I didn't realize all that info was available by clicking on the player profile.

 

[TheOtherBill]

Was stuck inside all rainy weekend with a sick kid but this amazing broadcast made it OK, especially the addition of the uDisc graphics and stats.

Really well done all around, hard to see any areas that need improvement so I'll just :hfive:

 

[DiscLoser1]

can anyone give me the TLDR version of the McBeth provisional drama?

He threw OB on a hole with mandatory drop zone; he questioned if re-throw was allowed, and decided to throw a provisional re-throw (that went OB also). TD caught up to the group and ruled re-throw not allowed. Nikko wanted McBeth's next throw to be 5 instead of 3. His next throw was counted as his 3rd.

 

[Pbmercil]

He threw OB on a hole with mandatory drop zone; he questioned if re-throw was allowed, and decided to throw a provisional re-throw (that went OB also). TD caught up to the group and ruled re-throw not allowed. Nikko wanted McBeth's next throw to be 5 instead of 3. His next throw was counted as his 3rd.

Thanks.

Did his group agree to the provisional? Seems pretty clear that it was his 3rd from the drop to me, based on your description

 

[JC17393]

Thanks.

Did his group agree to the provisional? Seems pretty clear that it was his 3rd from the drop to me, based on your description

Group doesn't have to agree to a provisional. The player is within his right under the rules to call a provisional particularly when the provisional is thrown because the group call is in dispute.

 

[DavidSauls]

He threw OB on a hole with mandatory drop zone; he questioned if re-throw was allowed, and decided to throw a provisional re-throw (that went OB also). TD caught up to the group and ruled re-throw not allowed. Nikko wanted McBeth's next throw to be 5 instead of 3. His next throw was counted as his 3rd.

Thank you so much. I've been trying to follow this and sort it out, and had about given up.

 

[lyleoross]

JV

I wouldn't worry too much about some of the commentary here concerning Terry and the "incidents." It felt all to often that the angst was about a player, not supported by said poster, getting away with something, again, by the poster's definition that they got away with something. Anyone associated with such events gets painted as bad.

Everyone wants to believe that what they are writing or thinking about has value. The fact that Steve Dodge and Terry pointed out that what goes in in social media might not be all that valuable is going to bother some people. If you take what happened here about the Paul incident, well, where's the value? Some say it's okay, some say it's not. It would be ridiculous to decide that one side or the other is actually significantly corrector (my new word) than the other. Knowing that and pointing it out can raise a firestorm.

In one sense, you guys are a victim of your own success. The fact that you know the players and tournament directors very well means that you can talk and speculate on what they say and do. That gives the internet plenty to be angry about. I might even argue that you should view these push backs as a comment on your success in commentating.

Now to the greater point. I've been watching disc golf video for about 15 years now. Where the current group of videographers and commentators has taken the sport is amazing. All of you, including the ones I like less than you guys, are doing an amazing job. Style, graphics, relationships between the different groups, players, and the PDGA are mature, and beneficial to we consumers. Hell, even the ads are pretty darn good, and I hate ads.

So thanks; thanks for making the sport funner, and more entertaining. Thanks for making it so that I have no life on tournament weekends. Most of all, kudos for defending your on air companion.

 

[luckless_pedestrian]

So I watched a little live coverage and some of the other recorded Round 3. I have to say it doesn't really look like the players are enjoying it. It seems to me Ledgestone is going for a USDGC feel with the ropes and all but the balance doesn't seem to be quite right. If I was a top pro the purse would be the main thing bringing me here, not the course. I'm probably in the minority but I don't hate that Jake guy for his 40 protest hole.

I would love to get some genuine reactions from some of the players.

 

[krupicka]

Steve Dodge was by far the most authoritative sounding voice during the incident, but it wasn't until later that I found out that he, in no way, was a TD for the tournament. So what, exactly, was he doing injecting himself into the discussion? I liked especially how he kept referring, with great confidence, to the "course director", whatever that is. This episode screamed out for the "TOURNAMENT director", not a "course director" or whatever role Steve Dodge was playing either.

Then someone showed up and produced a phone, claiming to have the word handed down from a TD, apparently. Then whatever "ruling" this phantom TD handed down was promptly subjected to an actual game of telephone until it trickled down to the players. Pretty comical stuff. I bet Jussi was laughing his ass off watching.

I wasn't going to comment on most this until later, but this post just irked me.

Person on phone making call to tournament central: Dana Vicich, Asst TD Course Design for the event. He contacted myself (Course TD for Lake Eureka Temp and also Asst TD Rules for the overall event). Whether or not I made the right call there (that's the much later post). It wasn't just some random person calling some other random person and getting involved. We were precisely the correct people to be doing what we were doing.

 

[SD86]

I wasn't going to comment on most this until later, but this post just irked me.

Person on phone making call to tournament central: Dana Vicich, Asst TD Course Design for the event. He contacted myself (Course TD for Lake Eureka Temp and also Asst TD Rules for the overall event). Whether or not I made the right call there (that's the much later post). It wasn't just some random person calling some other random person and getting involved. We were precisely the correct people to be doing what we were doing.

What's not clear to me is why Dodge was throwing himself into the discussion at all, nor why he thought he had any right to have any input into any of this.

(I speak as a 25-year chess tournament director, btw. Not all that different than DG tourney directing, except chess pieces are harder plastic and hurt more when thrown at me...)

 

[dorseymatt]

Am I reading this right? Holly Finley tossed a 1016-rated round? Way to go!

 

[lyleoross]

I wasn't going to comment on most this until later, but this post just irked me.

Person on phone making call to tournament central: Dana Vicich, Asst TD Course Design for the event. He contacted myself (Course TD for Lake Eureka Temp and also Asst TD Rules for the overall event). Whether or not I made the right call there (that's the much later post). It wasn't just some random person calling some other random person and getting involved. We were precisely the correct people to be doing what we were doing.

You're not helping us to confirm this is a vast conspiracy. This is way to logical and not hidden at all. Can't wait for the later post and the firestorm fun times that will follow.

BTW - I know there has been a lot of commentary on these courses and this event. Personally, I liked it. Yep, it's hard, and it makes players push their game. I like a course that makes players work hard and if they mess up, punishes them. I saw way more holes that I found interesting than holes I thought were a boring hash up in what I saw.

This is for me personally so please don't tell me how wrong I am about the sport and this event. It's what I like.

 

[lyleoross]

What's not clear to me is why Dodge was throwing himself into the discussion at all, nor why he thought he had any right to have any input into any of this.

(I speak as a 25-year chess tournament director, btw. Not all that different than DG tourney directing, except chess pieces are harder plastic and hurt more when thrown at me...)

I've yet to play or spectate in any event where everyone and their cousin Benny didn't have something to say about a ruling. Some from the sidelines quite loudly. Why should Steve be treated or act any differently?

In ball golf, the audience has learned, somewhat, okay, not really, to keep their mouths shut. We are sort of a participation sport in this way.

Steve does have something that most don't. He's been directing one of the biggest disc golf tournaments in the country for some time. He is the director of DGPT and has some say in how it's run. In other words, he knows less than the average poster on DGCR, but that's never stopped anyone before.

 

[corin_brown]

Person on phone making call to tournament central: Dana Vicich, Asst TD Course Design for the event. He contacted myself (Course TD for Lake Eureka Temp and also Asst TD Rules for the overall event). Whether or not I made the right call there (that's the much later post). It wasn't just some random person calling some other random person and getting involved. We were precisely the correct people to be doing what we were doing.

Good to know all those details, now. Thanks.

It's too bad (perhaps, even a little irksome ) that the 2500 live viewers were left guessing about all of those and many other relevant details, as the rules scrum was happening at the #6 DZ. But it's all good. Terry was doing the best he could, I'm sure, with all the chaos going on.

I'm still curious why Steve Dodge was the only named voice of authority ringing loud and clear during the situation, if he wasn't the one authorized to make the ruling.

I'm also curious why Dodge kept calling McBeth's throw from the DZ a "provisional." I thought that was funny.

I also haven't heard an explanation how rule 803.06 could ever be ignored. I'm assuming a waiver was obtained. How do waivers get granted? Is it on a case-by-case basis? If a waiver was granted to discard rule 803.06 for #6, I find that irksome by itself. Rule 803.06 seems like a pretty important rule - it has its own entry in the book, after all, with no qualifications or expansions.

It's also too bad there wasn't a TD proxy accompanying the card, on the tee in the first place, to tell McBeth to not re-tee and go straight to the DZ, thus avoiding any of the irksome confusion that followed.

In fact, I'm sure there's a good reason, but I wonder why TD's of big tournaments don't assign a TD proxy to follow any card that's being televised, so these situations don't happen in front of so many viewers and to avoid any unwanted irking. If one's interested in growing an audience, it's not a good look.

Actually, maybe these kind of chaotic, irksome situations do build audiences - a lot of people seem to be talking about it and it was a source of much heated discussion on the chat room during the broadcast for a solid hour after it happened. Who knows.

Anyway, sorry for irking you with my criticism.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Might help if you quoted the correct rulebook. No 803.06 in current rules.