Making the mando and being behind it

[drk229]

Had this one happen a little while back. It was a New England Team Challenge so, competitive, but casual. No caddy book or anything.

Hole shape is mando about 70 feet up the fairway, must pass tree on right, fairway is wooded on either side, and the hole doglegs left after the mando.

Player throws his drive, it makes the mando but hits the next tree and comes backwards on the left side of the mando.

On his next throw does he have to go through the mando?

 

[robdeforge]

https://www.pdga.com/faq/rules/qa-m...-incorrect-side-then-rolled-back-around-other

I think this picture addresses the situation you're describing:

 

[Steve West]

Had this one happen a little while back. It was a New England Team Challenge so, competitive, but casual. No caddy book or anything.

Hole shape is mando about 70 feet up the fairway, must pass tree on right, fairway is wooded on either side, and the hole doglegs left after the mando.

Player throws his drive, it makes the mando but hits the next tree and comes backwards on the left side of the mando.

On his next throw does he have to go through the mando?

At this point, it's probably better to wait for the 2022 rules to come out before trying to figure this out.

 

[araytx]

At this point, it's probably better to wait for the 2022 rules to come out before trying to figure this out.

Yep. Tomorrow the ruling on that is very clear.

 

[GripEnemy]

At this point, it's probably better to wait for the 2022 rules to come out before trying to figure this out.

Is there sarcasm in your post? No rule change should effect this question.

To me, once beyond the mando like OP stated it's nullified. Tree kick or rollaway doesn't matter. They successfully went right of the mando regardless of what happened afterwards.

Why would they alter anything about this rule(s)?

 

[Steve West]

Is there sarcasm in your post? No rule change should effect this question.

To me, once beyond the mando like OP stated it's nullified. Tree kick or rollaway doesn't matter. They successfully went right of the mando regardless of what happened afterwards.

Why would they alter anything about this rule(s)?

Since 2018, the concept of "making" the mando has been gone. It's all about getting a penalty for going on the wrong side of the mando.

The wrong side of the mando is a prohibited route, rather than the correct side being a required route.

Here is the 2022 rule:

804 Regulated Routes
804.01 Mandatory Routes
A. A mandatory route restricts the path the disc may take to the target.
B. The restricted space is a vertical plane marked by one or more objects or other markers which define the edges of the space.
C. If a throw clearly and completely enters a restricted space, the player receives one penalty throw. The lie for the next throw is the drop zone for that mandatory. If no drop zone has been designated, the lie for the next throw is the previous lie.

The mando is never nullified.

 

[BillFleming]

I think I have an understanding of this new rule....

With the new rule, there's no mention of where the disc comes to rest. It used to be that if the disc passed to the 'wrong' side of the mando, but came back around the mando marker, finally coming to rest on the 'good' side of the mando...the throw was good. Now, with no mention of the disc coming to rest, if it fully enters the restricted area the thrower gets the penalty.

Look at my crappy drawing of a double mando....everything between the double mando and the road (OB) is restricted area. The double mando is shown by the line between the two mando poles. It used to be that if the disc followed the brown line and ended up to the right of the mando, it was good. But with the 2022 rule, the disc completely entered the restricted area, so the player has to take a penalty and go to the drop zone.

Imagine if the OB rule was worded the same, then a disc that entered the OB would be OB regardless if it came back inbounds somewhere.

--Disclaimer, I don't know if the proper term for that is a double mando, or just a mando. There's two mando poles, but a line is from one to the other.

 

[Steve West]

I think I have an understanding of this new rule....

With the new rule, there's no mention of where the disc comes to rest. It used to be that if the disc passed to the 'wrong' side of the mando, but came back around the mando marker, finally coming to rest on the 'good' side of the mando...the throw was good. Now, with no mention of the disc coming to rest, if it fully enters the restricted area the thrower gets the penalty.

Look at my crappy drawing of a double mando....everything between the double mando and the road (OB) is restricted area. The double mando is shown by the line between the two mando poles. It used to be that if the disc followed the brown line and ended up to the right of the mando, it was good. But with the 2022 rule, the disc completely entered the restricted area, so the player has to take a penalty and go to the drop zone.

...

Close.

The "restricted space" is a vertical plane, not an area on the ground. You're not allowed to throw your disc through the vertical plane.

On your drawing the mando was missed when the brown line first crossed the green line. Nothing after that matters. Take a penalty and go to the drop zone.

(Important note: This particular example would be a crappy way to design a mando because of the difficulty of actually seeing whether the brown line ever passed between the poles or not.)

 

[krupicka]

Imagine if the OB rule was worded the same, then a disc that entered the OB would be OB regardless if it came back inbounds somewhere.

Then it would be a mandatory, not OB. OB and mandatories serve two different purposes. One is based on position, the other on flight. There is a reason they are written differently.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Think of the Restricted Space (Missed Mando) plane as a pane of fragile glass. If your disc breaks the glass coming through its front OR back side, you get penalized.

 

[Steve West]

Think of the Restricted Space (Missed Mando) plane as a pane of fragile glass. If your disc breaks the glass coming through its front OR back side, you get penalized.

That's a good way to think of it. The point about either side is important.

Keep in mind it's not a violation unless the disc clearly goes completely through the glass. Just making a crack doesn't count as a miss.

 

[roblee]

If a made mando kicks and stops on the back (good) side but with just a part of the disc poking through the plane I recon this is no penalty but how is this marked and how can you legally throw?

 

[BillFleming]

If a made mando kicks and stops on the back (good) side but with just a part of the disc poking through the plane I recon this is no penalty but how is this marked and how can you legally throw?

Unlike an OB where no part of your stance can be OB....you CAN stand on the restricted side of the mando. By the wording the area is only restricted for the disc.

 

[txmxer]

Unlike an OB where no part of your stance can be OB....you CAN stand on the restricted side of the mando. By the wording the area is only restricted for the disc.

But, if the disc is on the plane, your stance is completely behind the plane.

Do you have to make sure your release is beyond the plane? Let's say you want to throw a Brodie style scoober. That might mean disc release is behind the plane.

I know it's a technicality, but it is distinctly a possibility

 

[ToddL]

But, if the disc is on the plane, your stance is completely behind the plane.

Do you have to make sure your release is beyond the plane? Let's say you want to throw a Brodie style scoober. That might mean disc release is behind the plane.

I know it's a technicality, but it is distinctly a possibility

Diagram?

It sounds like you're standing on the wrong side of your disc.

 

[BillFleming]

Diagram?

It sounds like you're standing on the wrong side of your disc.

Look at my poorly drawn picture...now let's say the disc ended next to the mando line, your reachback could break the plane and enter the restricted area.

 

[BillFleming]

Think of the Restricted Space (Missed Mando) plane as a pane of fragile glass. If your disc breaks the glass coming through its front OR back side, you get penalized.

Thank you for this way of looking at it. During a break in a tournament today, my group was discussing this rule and a couple had trouble understanding how to apply it....I brought up your "breaking the glass" and they got it.

 

[txmxer]

Diagram?

It sounds like you're standing on the wrong side of your disc.

I may be misunderstanding the rule and some of the comments, but this is what I envisioned. The disc clears the mando, gets a tree kick and rolls backward on the wrong side of the mando and lays down on the mando line. It is my understanding, this is not a missed mando?

If it is not a missed mando, the player then must take a stance behind the mando line and make a throw from behind the mando line. Can the player throw the blue path, or must the next throw follow the green line?

 

[BillFleming]

I may be misunderstanding the rule and some of the comments, but this is what I envisioned. The disc clears the mando, gets a tree kick and rolls backward on the wrong side of the mando and lays down on the mando line. It is my understanding, this is not a missed mando?

If it is not a missed mando, the player then must take a stance behind the mando line and make a throw from behind the mando line. Can the player throw the blue path, or must the next throw follow the green line?

The MOST important part of the new mando rule is that it isn't about where the disc comes to rest. The ONLY thing that matters is - did it FULLY enter the restricted area.....if so, take a penalty and throw from drop zone or where your last lie was. What the disc does after entering the restricted area doesn't matter.

 

[txmxer]

The MOST important part of the new mando rule is that it isn't about where the disc comes to rest. The ONLY thing that matters is - did it FULLY enter the restricted area.....if so, take a penalty and throw from drop zone or where your last lie was. What the disc does after entering the restricted area doesn't matter.

Sorry, the above is okay or is not okay?