Math and Flipping Discs for Doubles

[razorsmith.com]

i typically use cards and split groups into adv and novice to even teams out more. however when flipping in your scenario:

5 in each group, it is understood that the 1st odd person out in each group pair up. then each odd out pairs up within their side with the next odd out. so in your scenario you get 2 groups of 5. each group of 5 have 4 that head flip and 1 tail. those 2 tails are a pair. then each group has an equal number of 4 remaining. from then on the odd outs pair up within their own group. Happy throwing.

darren

 

[threevok]

And yet I've had the same person In my card three weeks in a row. The luck of the draw is a crazy thing lol.

Are you playing with a full deck?

 

[The Last DJ]

I like drawing cards as well...especially when there's a big turnout. You can even include the Joker if there's an odd number of people.

 

[Puckstopper]

Just use a bigger bag and minis (with names on them) to eliminate the need for assigning numbers.

This is what we do, and works fine.

 

[jrawk]

We flip discs when 12 or less play. We draw cards when 13+. It's easy, until somebody brings their wife/kids and decides to play with them.

Our doubles are free to play with an optional $5 side bet, winner takes all, and $1 ace per person. You pay in before partners are assigned or not. If you end up with a partner that paid in, and you win, you split it. This system works out becuase the less skilled players still like to gamble and pay-in, hopeing they get paired up with somebody better.

 

[BionicRib]

Cards.../thread

 

[Lachendr0]

I run an A/B random draw doubles league.
I have a stack of blank cards numbered 1-42
As I take their money and write their name down, each person draws a number. I write their number next to their name.

Once it's time to do pairings the lowest numbered A gets paired with the lowest B.
Once we run out of A or B players the Remaining players are paired from the lowest two left etc.
Odd number of players means the highest numbered person is Cali.

This has the advantage of using only one pile of cards
No waiting for everyone before we pull the correct number of cards.
Everyone can go warm up and not come back until it's tee time
Everyone knows their number if there are any questions of shady dealings.


The only downside is some people are confused by what's going on the first time they see it.

A really solid system after two years of doing it it's been great, I highly recommend it.

 

[DatRedDude]

We just use a deck of cards for our doubles league. We set up the deck so there's as many pairs as people. So the two red aces are paired with the two black aces on hole 1. Easiest way and quickest way in my opinion.

This and numbered poker chips are the only way I have seen in my area, never an issue.

 

[mashnut]

For a larger organized league, cards or poker chips or minis are definitely the way to go. That said, I've done disc flipping many times and never once had a single bit of confusion. If there's an odd man out you just pair them with the next odd man out, not all that complicated.

 

[scarpfish]

I've done flipping in groups as big as 30. It really didn't take any more time than any of the other methods being suggested as an alternative here. Albeit, anything larger, I'd want a deck of cards handy.

 

[ambroze]

There's an iphone app call 'Team Shake' that allows you to enter in names and organize them Status (Present/Absent), Gender, and Strength. Once all names are entered it will randomize the names in teams of 2. All names will be kept and stored for the next tourney and if someone is not there you can simply mark then as absent. I've tested it out and it does the job. It is a whopping .99 cents though.

 

[DavidSauls]

I've done flipping in groups as big as 30. It really didn't take any more time than any of the other methods being suggested as an alternative here. Albeit, anything larger, I'd want a deck of cards handy.

In our local doubles, at least when I still attended, cards had the added benefit of establishing starting holes. Aces on Hole 1, Kings on 3, Queens on 9, etc.

(Red Aces are one team, black aces another, etc.)

Flipping is very handy for unplanned doubles, which usually involve smaller numbers anyway....no one's brought cards, poker chips, or the like.

 

[jchoate7]

What we did was have everybody take their minis and throw them into the middle. Randomly have one person draw two. There you go, doubles team made!

This works really well if you have an A and B pool group of players as well. Draw one from the A pool of minis and one from the B pool of minis and you'll then have a better and more even draw of players.

 

[scarpfish]

I just ran a simulation on a spreadsheet using the 65 open division players at the GBO as if they were participants in a doubles round (32 pairs, plus one odd man out). I used the random number function to determine the result of flips. If 1 came up that was heads, if 2 came up that was tails. Here's how things turned out.

3 groups (1-3) found their partner in only four flips.
4 groups (4-7) found their partner in five flips.
11 groups (8-18) found their partner in six flips.
11 more groups (19-29) found their partner in seven flips.
There were 7 players who, after 5-7 flips, got singled out of their groups and went to the 'odd man out' group to flip some more. After one flip, one of those players was singled out again. (His name, Will Schusterick). A second flip broke a pair from the remaining six. A third flip decided the remaining four.

Everyone had their partner after nine flips.

Yeah, I think a deck of cards would have been more efficient. Well, two decks perhaps, as there's only 54 in one deck.

 

[jasonc]

Am I crazy?

Yes. You are over-thinking it. Just keep flipping until everyone is paired up.

Cards or named/numbered minis is the easy way to avoid multiple rounds of flipping discs.

 

[tampora]

Trust me, I try to convince folks NOT to use this flipping method for the reasons listed above. I prefer playing cards by far. The reason for this thread was not to discover a better way to choose groups. I already know many.

The goal of this thread was to:
1. Identify possible flaws in the method of flipping in principle AND in practice. (i.e. larger groups flip slower, thus round 3 for this group might happen during round 5 for that group; further complicating the odd-man out solutions)
2. Organize these possible flaws into a neat package that can be easily explained to people who believe the system to be perfect.

[. . .]I've done disc flipping many times and never once had a single bit of confusion.

I think this is due to no one realizing there is a non-random element to this flipping method. Everything is not complicated when you do not observe carefully.

When there becomes an odd man out, they always seem to wander around until they stumble upon another odd man out; then they join up to form a twosome. Unfortunately, this is usually based on physical proximity and not which odd-man is closest to themselves in the branches of the flipping-tree.

If there's an odd man out you just pair them with the next odd man out, not all that complicated.

This rule does not cover half of the possible scenarios. Consider this one:

Round N: In one of the resulting groupings, suppose there is a single odd-man-out.
Round N+1: In one of the resulting groupings, there are two odd-men-out.

Using your "next odd man out" rule, would the odd-man from round N get grouped with the first odd-man from round N+1, based on whoever's grouping flipped fastest? This means someone could game the system by speeding up or slowing down their grouping's flips depending on the attractiveness of the odd-man-in-waiting.

In another scenario, what if round N has 3 odd-men out? Are we to determine who's disc landed first and second?

Regardless, once the field of players splits into 5+ groupings, there's no reasonable expectation for all players to flip at the same time, or for all players to keep track of which odd-man came from which branch of the rapidly-dividing field of players.

It's certainly uncomplicated to match up odd-men, if you just gravitate towards the crowd of people you want to group with, then wait for any of them to become an odd-man and call out "Partners!".

 

[zgmc]

Are you playing with a full deck?

Do you have to ask?

 

[scarpfish]

I think this is due to no one realizing there is a non-random element to this flipping method. Everything is not complicated when you do not observe carefully.

When there becomes an odd man out, they always seem to wander around until they stumble upon another odd man out; then they join up to form a twosome. Unfortunately, this is usually based on physical proximity and not which odd-man is closest to themselves in the branches of the flipping-tree.



This rule does not cover half of the possible scenarios. Consider this one:

Round N: In one of the resulting groupings, suppose there is a single odd-man-out.
Round N+1: In one of the resulting groupings, there are two odd-men-out.

Using your "next odd man out" rule, would the odd-man from round N get grouped with the first odd-man from round N+1, based on whoever's grouping flipped fastest? This means someone could game the system by speeding up or slowing down their grouping's flips depending on the attractiveness of the odd-man-in-waiting.

In another scenario, what if round N has 3 odd-men out? Are we to determine who's disc landed first and second?

Regardless, once the field of players splits into 5+ groupings, there's no reasonable expectation for all players to flip at the same time, or for all players to keep track of which odd-man came from which branch of the rapidly-dividing field of players.

It's certainly uncomplicated to match up odd-men, if you just gravitate towards the crowd of people you want to group with, then wait for any of them to become an odd-man and call out "Partners!".

This would all be solved by instituting two rules.

1. Once it is obvious that a smaller group has an even number of people of eight or less amongst it, players in that group must partner with someone in that group. If you get singled out of one of these groups, you will stand put and wait until another person gets singled out. That person is your partner.

2. Players who get singled out of an odd numbered group, or any group of ten people or more (not likely), will go to a predesignated area and wait until all players are partnered or resigned to the same fate. Then all of the odd men out will group and resume flipping.

 

[Romans 5-8]

What usually ends up happening is the odd-men-out just wander around until they find another odd-man-out and they group up.

Yup Yup, as lame as it is, this is what normally happens.

 

[blarmour]

We used to use the cards to pair people up. It is very simple, and quick. However, it is totally random and therefore, often the top two players get paired together and just blow everyone else away. While this may be fun for the two top players, newbies and lesser players get very discouraged and lose interest from the start because they know they don't stand a chance.
So, my assistant developed a phone app that we use now. We use players handicaps from our singles league (or assign a number to players who have not played in our handicap league before based on their level of play). Each players name is already entered in the app (new players are very easily added on site). I simply tap on each players name who shows up for doubles and hit start and the app automatically divides all the players into 2 groups according to their handicap. Upper division players and lower division players. Then it randomly selects a player from each group and pairs them together so that all teams are evenly matched. We have found this is much more fair and everyone has a shot at winning. Only 1 time have we had the top upper division player matched with the top lower division player, and yes, they did end up winning, but it was close.
If there is an odd number of players, the player who's rating is in the middle is the wildman.