Math and Flipping Discs for Doubles

[tampora]

I've been to a couple small tournaments and league events that have done this. I was told this is commonplace at many larger events. Is this true?

The idea is: when choosing random doubles partners, everyone would flip their own disc at once. Heads people would go to one side, and tails would go to the other. Then begins a second round of flipping. Each group splits again based on heads/tails. These divisions continue until two people remain and they become partners. If an odd person remains, they become Cali.

I've thought about this system a little bit and it doesn't make sense to me in instances of multiple odd-men-out. I've tried to communicate this problem before, but I alone doubt the method. Am I crazy?

Here's a example of where the method breaks down:
Start flipping with 10 golfers: Half get heads and half get tails.
Now, the 5 heads flip; there is exactly 1 tails.
The 4 remaining heads flip; there is exactly 1 tails.
The 3 remaining heads flip; there is exactly 1 tails.
The 2 remaining people become partners.
Meanwhile, on the 5-Tails side: the exact same thing happens.
Thus, we're left with two pairings completed and 6 remaining ungrouped people who were an odd-man-out at the end of their flips.

In rows, it could be represented like this:
10
5 & 5
4 / 1 & 4 / 1
3 / 1 / 1 & 3 / 1 / 1
[2] / 1 / 1 / 1 & [2] / 1 / 1 / 1
Matched twosomes are removed to yield:
1 / 1 / 1 & 1 / 1 / 1
Lets rename these players as:
A / B / C & X / Y / Z

Here, there are many ways to group the remaining players.

We could say those who only flipped twice (or three times) are paired together, we get: AX, BY, CZ

Or, we could say the first two odd men out on a side get paired together, we get: AB, XY, CZ

In short, there are many logical ways to make this determination. But, in reality, I've never heard such rule intricacies explained beforehand (or even during). For larger numbers of players, I doubt a simple rule could suffice for all possible outcomes. What usually ends up happening is the odd-men-out just wander around until they find another odd-man-out and they group up.

Has anybody else thought about this?

 

[BirdieMachine]

Sounds like some rules made up by some higher thinking disc golfers.

How about just drawing numbers. 1-10

1,2
3,4
5,6
7,8
9,10

Simple is best.

 

[Future_Primitive]

It is much easier and quicker to get a small bag (Crown Royal?) and some bottle caps or poker chips. Number the caps/chips #1 - 30 (or more depending on league size) and have each person draw a cap/chip. Make a list 1-30 on a pc of paper and fill it in as people pull their chips. Then pair people up by numerical order once buy in time is over. If you get an odd # of folks, draw one cap/chip from the already pulled pile to randomly pick the Cali player.

Flipping discs works good for small groups, anything over 8-10 players or so and chips/caps becomes easier. Also cuts down on the Math.

 

[sugarnot]

we flip all the time here and there are never any issues. You can do it multiple ways, all you are trying to do is get people paired up, no need to make it more difficult than it is by over thinking it. There is logic in doing it various ways so just leave it be. The only place where you get sketchy is when people start late flipping or almost forcing the disc to land a certain way by modifying their flip technique. I'll admit I have done so in order to avoid being paired up with someone as the pairs start coming together

 

[uNicedmeMan]

It is much easier and quicker to get a small bag (Crown Royal?) and some bottle caps or poker chips. Number the caps/chips #1 - 30 (or more depending on league size) and have each person draw a cap/chip. Make a list 1-30 on a pc of paper and fill it in as people pull their chips. Then pair people up by numerical order once buy in time is over. If you get an odd # of folks, draw one cap/chip from the already pulled pile to randomly pick the Cali player.

Flipping discs works good for small groups, anything over 8-10 players or so and chips/caps becomes easier. Also cuts down on the Math.

Just use a bigger bag and minis (with names on them) to eliminate the need for assigning numbers.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Split group evenly into higher rated players and lower rated players. Either the higher rated or lower rated group puts their minis in a hat and the other group draws for partner. If odd number, last mini not drawn is the cali person or someone volunteers who is in the middle of the rating skills. For completely random, use deck of cards.

 

[bcr123psu]

Just use a bigger bag and minis (with names on them) to eliminate the need for assigning numbers.

This

 

[bradharris]

If we get an odd man out early on, we'll just pair him with the next odd man out. The only way he never gets paired with someone is if there is an odd number. In that case, he's cali.

 

[Stevo]

We use a deck of cards. Pull out as many pairs of cards needed so each player gets one (ex: 12 players = 6 matching sets of cards. 2 black aces, 2 red access, 2 black kings, 2 red kings, etc). Each player draws a card, they get paired up with their corresponding card. To make it even easier, you have two teams to a card (ex: kings start on hole 2)

 

[Stankyjahnke]

We just use a deck of cards for our doubles league. We set up the deck so there's as many pairs as people. So the two red aces are paired with the two black aces on hole 1. Easiest way and quickest way in my opinion.

 

[JC17393]

I've only ever seen disc flipping amongst groups of four or fewer...bigger groups than that and it gets too complicated and frankly too time consuming.

The most common method I've seen for random partners is throwing minis in a bag and pulling them out in pairs, with the owners of the paired minis being partnered. That's the simplest thing for a pick-up game. For more organized leagues, I've seen and used a deck of cards. Each player draws a card and finds their match (red 3s, black aces, red 9s, etc). That's really effective for large turnouts because not only can you match teams for that, you can set up playing groups as well (everyone who drew a 3 starts on hole 3, everyone who drew 9s starts on hole 9, etc).

For the random draw league I run now, I have the luxury of having my laptop at the ready, so I set up a random partner generator in an Excel spreadsheet. I type names in as people sign up, then click the generator to create teams when sign up ends. Works for me, but not something that's all that portable for use anywhere.

 

[grodney]

There are roughly 80,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 unique ways to order 52 playing cards.

In other words: Any time you pick up a well shuffled deck, you are almost certainly holding an arrangement of cards that has never before existed and might not exist again.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

Yeah. Drawing cards seems best to me - fair and random and it creates cards - Aces to hole 1, 10s to hole 10, Kings to hole 15, etc. Flipping has issues as brought up in this thread, not to mention certain discs may be more prone to land a certain way (51% likely to land tails due to weight distribution). I dislike drawing minis, unless everyone has the exact same mini there's some kind of bias - smaller minis sink to the bottom of the pile, some minis "nest" together and often get paired that way, if players are drawing you could feel for that one you want.

 

[Stankyjahnke]

There are roughly 80,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 unique ways to order 52 playing cards.

And yet I've had the same person In my card three weeks in a row. The luck of the draw is a crazy thing lol.

 

[mattc]

We flip, even bigger 20-30 player groups.
Or, if I am running things, I will often use raffle tickets.
When you pay, you put your name on a ticket, drop it in the hat.
Then I will draw parntners.
then at the end of the round we will also draw names for prizes, usually new discs.

 

[namar]

If we get an odd man out early on, we'll just pair him with the next odd man out. The only way he never gets paired with someone is if there is an odd number. In that case, he's cali.

this is what we do, and have had zero problems with as many as 23 people. I can, however, see it getting sketchy when folks aren't paying attention/are trying to game the system/are strict fairness-mongers. but it's nice to handle it without a bag of minis or a laptop.

 

[Future_Primitive]

Just use a bigger bag and minis (with names on them) to eliminate the need for assigning numbers.

Just may have to do that, thanks! :thmbup:

 

[BgWvDave]

We use a deck of cards. Pull out as many pairs of cards needed so each player gets one (ex: 12 players = 6 matching sets of cards. 2 black aces, 2 red access, 2 black kings, 2 red kings, etc). Each player draws a card, they get paired up with their corresponding card. To make it even easier, you have two teams to a card (ex: kings start on hole 2)

this is what we use

 

[ohtobediscing]

As I read the OP's post, I keep hearing Otter after he smoked his first joint in Animal House: "So-so that means that one tiny atom in my fingernail..."

Lord knows theres enough obsessing about this at the meetup. But 5 AM?

 

[ru4por]

Just may have to do that, thanks! :thmbup:

This is a very cool idea. Give minis out to members, have a sharpie available right then to have names put on them and use them to draw. Seems very disc golfy to me. :clap: