My Problem with Worlds Final 9

[Cgkdisc]

Even if most final 9s have been victory laps, there's no excuse for not having a competitive quality Final 9 even if it is a coronation. The Final 9 in 2009 was technically very weak regardless of the drama. Almost no par 4s in what was touted as a long arm Worlds and the last hole shooting over the busy entrance drive for example.

 

[bikinjack]

Imagine the last stage of the Tour de France. There isn't an official rule, but an unspoken rule among the racers that you do not attack the leader on the last stage. If you are leading the Tour going into the last day, then you have already won it. So during a lot of the stage you see teams all riding together side by side, guys drinking champagne and various other riders all posing for photos. That's a huge international event where the final stage is basically a victory lap through Paris, just going through the motions for pictures/traditions. Except of course for the sprinters.

It doesn't take away from the event at all. If you haven't taken the lead by the last day, you don't complain because you had nearly three weeks of racing to do so. Directly analogous to the final 9 and multiple rounds leading up to it.

Nice analogy. But, remember the last year there was a time trial on Le Champs-Elysees?* For what it's worth, most grand tours have a TT for the last stage. For what ever reason, they quit doing that in Le Tour.


*1989, Greg Lemond took 58 seconds out of Laurent Fignon to win Le Tour by 8 seconds.

 

[1978]

The final leg of the tour de france is just a slow show off for the crowd... anyways, I enjoyed the final 9 at Am worlds, thanks Whiz for letting me caddy. Plenty of water and openness for spectators. Look at the results!!

I have heard talk about a final 9 next year at a well known course in Charlotte. I doubt that we will use actual course fairways, it will be a temporary course. Im sure it will be a Stan design so no doubt full of risk/reward. I'm quite confident there wont be any 800' wide open holes, Charlotte has only a few of those any way.

 

[1978]

A high probablility that the finals will be at Hornet's Next Park, mainly in the front area. It will probably be a mix of existing holes and utilizing other areas, like the lake and ballfields. I suspect that there will be some Winthropesque yellow rope in places too.

Oh, well jeez, and I was trying not to let the cat out of the bag. Probably should have read the whole thread.

 

[notBOB]

I wouldn't really call it a farce. It's just a certain type of golf. Guys from Oklahoma will see this thread and wonder WTF we are bitching about because wide-open long disc golf is their game.

believe it or not we have some crazy thick and technical courses in central oklahoma, tho there is a lot of open "wind golf" too.. but i agree with the majority here, why coast to the finish? Turn that sh*t up! why not make some badass safari holes on the actual course? these are best of the best, on some of the best courses in the world.. lets see what they can do, TD's and players alike.

 

[JHern]

There was a good scoring spread on the 2011 Worlds final 9 at Pinto Lake. Just about every hole had a mix of pars and birdies, which is what you like to see. The crowd loved watching, as Nate cruised to victory. He made some spectacular throws, and really sealed the deal.

The only reason the final 9 was a victory lap was because Nate was so far ahead. (Val wasn't so fortunate.) Josh was bitten by hole 14 in the semi-finals. Nate birdied it. Josh's putt also bounced back up and out of the basket on the first hole of the final 9. Even though Josh was the only player to birdie the third hole in the final 9 (Pinto's hole 1), it was already too late.

 

[:::LSWT:::]

I'm not dissing Nate

I just think the final 9 should be something more than a victory parade on a soccer field....it should be competitive and have some drama

you should'a been there. my girl and i stayed and followed/watched the men's and women's final nine. it was anything but a boring or a victory lap for nate.

right out the gate on the first hole will's amazingly long and accurate tee shot flew 10 yards past the basket, his nice putt for birdie gets him one closer to doss, forcing nate tocontinue to play strong and with the confidence he had shown all week. yes, there were a couple of times where nate took a safe route on a putt once he had realized the other players were not going to gain one on him, but throughout the nine holes you could feel the others trying to make a run (josh's long birdie upshot for birdie was pretty cool), and nate kept answering the challenge even though his lead seemed comfortable.

there were also times when nate did throw aggressive tee shots that thrilled the crowd (one in particular, i think hole 6) nate threw a reall nice low line drive that flew 350 - 400 ft under the low hanging guardian tree's and snuggled up right next to the basket for an easy bird. nikko's roller on the same hole went wide 12 meters which he then converted with an awesome putt.

there were two heavily wooded holes within the final nine that could have been a disaster for any player and nate stepped up and did what he had to do.

the women's final nine was off the charts. you'll have to wait for the dvd on this one, i'm tired of typing.

a couple of pics i took:

 

[ATrainWecker]

I totally agree with the original poster. I am a Monterey native, and was volunteering at the event. It would have been EPIC if the Final 9 was on Pinto's original holes, which are 1-4, 14-18. I was a bit pissed off when I found out what holes they were doing for the final 9.

 

[bizarbies]

you should'a been there. my girl and i stayed and followed/watched the men's and women's final nine. it was anything but a boring or a victory lap for nate.

right out the gate on the first hole will's amazingly long and accurate tee shot flew 10 yards past the basket, his nice putt for birdie gets him one closer to doss, forcing nate tocontinue to play strong and with the confidence he had shown all week. yes, there were a couple of times where nate took a safe route on a putt once he had realized the other players were not going to gain one on him, but throughout the nine holes you could feel the others trying to make a run (josh's long birdie upshot for birdie was pretty cool), and nate kept answering the challenge even though his lead seemed comfortable.

there were also times when nate did throw aggressive tee shots that thrilled the crowd (one in particular, i think hole 6) nate threw a reall nice low line drive that flew 350 - 400 ft under the low hanging guardian tree's and snuggled up right next to the basket for an easy bird. nikko's roller on the same hole went wide 12 meters which he then converted with an awesome putt.

there were two heavily wooded holes within the final nine that could have been a disaster for any player and nate stepped up and did what he had to do.

the women's final nine was off the charts. you'll have to wait for the dvd on this one, i'm tired of typing.

a couple of pics i took:

Great pictures!

 

[JTacoma03]

thats the problem it wasnt even a course it was a temporary layout on a soccer complex...........:thmbdown:

wow opti I'm so far in the other direction.

1. It wasn't on a soccer complex. Why do people keep saying this? There is 1 soccer field up top in a multi-use park which includes the disc golf course. People just find stuff to complain about. Nobody at the event was complaining about a soccer goal that I heard.

2. The final 9 wasn't totally open as JHern said. Hole 2 @ pinto is one of the tougher ones on the course, as is Hole 18, the finishing hole.

3. The open holes had tons of OB lines, just because there aren't trees doesn't mean a course isn't difficult.

4. As JHern said - it was only a victory lap because Nate (and JB in the masters) already had it in the bag. The Val Jenkins and Paige Pierce battle was AWESOME.

5. Pinto Lake isn't a great course for spectators at some points, there are not many places to watch - and the what's the point of all the pomp and circumstance (which our sport NEEDS in order to grow, and yes it will grow) if nobody can see it by playing in some tight wooded hole for the final crowning moment?

6. All of you complaining seriously haven't come up with a full set of facts yet. At the awards ceremony EVERY player who accepted awards stood up and said "When Tom Schot told me a year ago we'd have worlds here I told him it would be a mistake" and EVERY player then said "I was wrong".

 

[Three Putt]

Even if most final 9s have been victory laps, there's no excuse for not having a competitive quality Final 9 even if it is a coronation. The Final 9 in 2009 was technically very weak regardless of the drama. Almost no par 4s in what was touted as a long arm Worlds and the last hole shooting over the busy entrance drive for example.

I guess my question is how were those holes chosen? Does the PDGA step in at any point and look at the final 9 holes and dictate what is going to happen, or is that totally up to the host?

 

[JTacoma03]

I guess my question is how were those holes chosen? Does the PDGA step in at any point and look at the final 9 holes and dictate what is going to happen, or is that totally up to the host?

TD chooses. Tom Schot chose them this year. For reference, they were:

Hole "A": Temp Hole over 400' OB runs down fairway left, trees on right, phone pole in the middle so you have to choose a side of the fairway. (Great deuce by Shusterick)

Hole "B": 235' tight OB left and right down the fairway. Covered Teepad and tree in the dead center so forces a low line. The green bordered by OB not far outside the circle on 3 sides.

Hole 1: >400' Par 3, elevated teepad slopes downhill, high/spike route risky trees downhill will catch discs (they do here in Cali, and 2m rule is always played), slopes back up slightly to basket blocked on right side by large fallen tree. OB left and right all the way down the fairway.

Hole 2: >500' Par4 tight narrow fairway that turns left, OB left and right. Basket is on a path with slopes on both sides and trees force the narrow window. OB creek runs through the middle of the fairway which forces either a layup tee shot or a risky bomb to get over.

Hole D: ~450' "links" style hole slight right turn. Heavy bushes/OB to the right, clear on left. Wind is a factor on these next 4 temp holes , typically a R-L crosswind

Hole E teebox to Hole F basket: >400'. teepad near trees to open field, tree line 50' before basket, green is in a depression past the tree line. Wind is a factor between the trees in the main fairway.

Hole G: <250' tight fairway with OB on all sides and surrounding the basket. Basket is in a depression guarded by a large tree and the aforementioned OB.

Hole H: ~550' Open bomb hole (Nikko and Shusterick put it inside the circle in the final 9, sick.)

Hole 18: tight right turn, not sure the distance but I think close to 400'. Double mando off the teebox, slopes down R-L (against the turn) to OB. Fairway plays back up the slope to the open green outside of the treeline.


This final 9 was hardly a victory lap except for Jon Baldwin in Masters who had 8 strokes to give going into it.

 

[jasperpipestone]

TD chooses. Tom Schot chose them this year. For reference, they were:

Interesting old SI article about 1985 World Disc Championships ran by Tom.

"The next morning at DeLaveaga, 40 golfers sniffed the breeze, gauged the course and the wind and sifted through their disc bags with Zen-like attention. Suddenly, a maniacal howl shook the needles of the Douglas firs. Most everyone recognized the howler, and someone noted, correctly but unruffled, "Crazy must be cookin'." He was. The Craze scorched DeLaveaga Thursday for a course-record 50, all but sewing up the Golf portion of the Worlds."

 

[JTacoma03]

Haha yeah I've read that article.

Also Crazy John Brooks is awesome. He did a bunch of on-camera work for the DVD this week (interviews and such) and he's a ton of fun to be around. He still howls.

 

[Dave242]

A high probablility that the finals will be at Hornet's Next Park, mainly in the front area. It will probably be a mix of existing holes and utilizing other areas, like the lake and ballfields. I suspect that there will be some Winthropesque yellow rope in places too.

Sounds cool. Replacing the wooded 8 & 9 with interesting temporary holes would be awesome! (Not that I dislike 8 & 9, but they do not support any sort of gallery....unless they walked down the stream and peered through the woods on 8).

Something to keep in mind for any final 9 showcase event: besides the golf aspect you gotta have all the logistics ingredients - parking, pavilion for awards, bathrooms, etc. Hornet's Nest has all that on the front 9.

 

[New013]

It's so shocking that a bunch of die hard dg fans think the sport on its biggest stage live was awesome and perfect...

I think the lesson that can be taken from this entire thing is that while those of you that were there thought every moment was dg bliss, those of us who watched the coverage had a step back view of the event and we were able to see the obvious flaws. (soccer goal)

 

[JTacoma03]

It's so shocking that a bunch of die hard dg fans think the sport on its biggest stage live was awesome and perfect...

I think the lesson that can be taken from this entire thing is that while those of you that were there thought every moment was dg bliss, those of us who watched the coverage had a step back view of the event and we were able to see the obvious flaws. (soccer goal)

1. First 6-figure purse in disc golf history.

2. Highest payout to Open winners in disc golf history.

3. First Worlds to fill the entire field in disc golf history.

4. Largest tournament field in disc golf history.

5. Over 30 competitors in 60 y.o.+ age protected divisions.

6. The first 3-time Men's Open World Champion since Climo.

7. The 2010 Female Rookie of the Year took the Hometown favorite (and 3-time world champion) in the final 9 to win her first world championship. The current FPO World Champion was on the final card as well...

8. Jay Reading won his 4th World Putting Title

9. Over 120 volunteers signed up and paid $60 to work a disc golf tournament

10. Seppu Paju threw a 400' ace off of a wharf and won $500

11. The public saw its first screening of Chains

I could go on...

Nobody is saying it was perfect - Tom Schot doesn't think it went perfect (and he addressed that). What I am saying is that you need to get off the computer and go play more, you average 300 posts per month and you've been playing for 1 year. You're worrying about things that are minimal and nitpicky instead of seeing the overall picture.

Go run a weekly league or dubs, then come back and bitch about running a world championship tournament...

 

[scarpfish]

4. Largest tournament field in disc golf history.

Might want to elaborate on this one. I think the folks who run Bowling Green Ams might dispute you on this.

 

[GLong]

What I am saying is that you need to get off the computer and go play more, you average 300 posts per month and you've been playing for 1 year. You're worrying about things that are minimal and nitpicky instead of seeing the overall picture.

Go run a weekly league or dubs, then come back and bitch about running a world championship tournament...

:thmbup:

 

[JTacoma03]

Might want to elaborate on this one. I think the folks who run Bowling Green Ams might dispute you on this.

I apologize - I meant to type "Largest field for a World Championship in disc golf history"

There were 435 competitors, I don't know about BG Ams but I will say if they ran a tournament bigger than that then props to them for pulling it off! That's no easy feat.