National Tour folds into DGPT

[dehaas]

whats cdick real job

Taking kids lunch money at B tiers in Tennessee?

 

[@CD-]

Let's look at the reality of the situation…

A trip for a US player over to Europe is very expensive. Gotta figure the top couple of players are getting sponsorship help or can outright afford it. For pretty much everybody else it's a net loss trip.

Now let's say they're staying a couple weeks to hit multiple events. Cost continues to go up, and now you're talking about missing DGPT events back home and potentially not landing enough points to make the DGPT championship, which has had a very strong payout in its history.

No doubt making the extended trip would be quite the experience, but I don't see how you could reasonably argue it makes sense for anybody but a very small handful of people.

Dickerson has said on record he avoids the west coast because of travel expenses and we're talking about a several week Eurotrip? No dice…

Agreed, would require much more cost sharing, organization, & planning compared to what they do in the U.S. Certainly the brands that have a presence in Europe would be willing to host/find hosts for their sponsored players though.

 

[Ryan P.]

if not a counter culture hippie thing, what did disc golf start as?

ThreePutt answered that better than I ever could. I was more saying that it's not a unified experience; each person has their own experience, and as the sport grows, it becomes less and less that way. It's not moving in one direction; as DG grows the experiences become more and more varied.

I got into it because I love sports, love throwing frisbees, love nature, and love being challenged. DG fuels my need for all those slots. It had nothing to do with being counter-cultural.

 

[robdeforge]

ThreePutt answered that better than I ever could. I was more saying that it's not a unified experience; each person has their own experience, and as the sport grows, it becomes less and less that way. It's not moving in one direction; as DG grows the experiences become more and more varied.

I got into it because I love sports, love throwing frisbees, love nature, and love being challenged. DG fuels my need for all those slots. It had nothing to do with being counter-cultural.

I wasn't trying to be argumentative just clarifying, and I appreciate both responses. definitely learning more history than I would've thought from this thread!

 

[jakebake91]

I wasn't trying to be argumentative just clarifying, and I appreciate both responses. definitely learning more history than I would've thought from this thread!

Anytime 3P had a post with paragraphs, it's always a fun history lesson in something!

 

[Three Putt]

ThreePutt answered that better than I ever could. I was more saying that it's not a unified experience; each person has their own experience, and as the sport grows, it becomes less and less that way. It's not moving in one direction; as DG grows the experiences become more and more varied.

I got into it because I love sports, love throwing frisbees, love nature, and love being challenged. DG fuels my need for all those slots. It had nothing to do with being counter-cultural.

I wasn't trying to be argumentative just clarifying, and I appreciate both responses. definitely learning more history than I would've thought from this thread!

Entry into anything would have to be very personal, eh?

I started playing regularly after I got kicked off my softball team for grounding out the second in every at bat and going 0-season. I really could have used a YouTube video showing me to get my hands out front; if I was ten years younger that would have been there and I would have never played disc golf, I just managed to horribly screw up my swing before the Internet. I wasn't doing anything other than shopping for a replacement sport when I started playing disc golf.

Something I often remember was a St. Louis Disc Golf Club meeting that had (as per usual) devolved into chaos with people yelling over each other and no one following any of Robert's Rules. In the middle I managed to get out the question of how many people in the room had ever belonged to another club before; there were four of us. Then I asked how many of them had played organized sports in school; there were to of us.

It really struck me then how different that group of people was to what my experience of a group was. These were guys that had never joined anything before. They hadn't stuck with team sports past little league if they ever played at all. They hadn't joined any organizations. Nothing before in their lives had ever motivated them to be involved in any group, and now here they were. A bunch of 30-40 year-old guys who had no idea how to behave in a meeting. But there they were. It spoke to the power that this game could have that this room full of cultural misfits were there passionately arguing about it.

They came from everywhere; the disc golf demographic was one of the hurdles the professional sport had. From a recreational standpoint, if was great. You could tell a parks department that a course would attract young, old, middle-class, lower-class, men, women, all races and that wide demographic was a selling point. Advertisers hated it. Who are disc golfers? We are everybody! If you had a product targeted at a specific demographic, disc golf was too broad to be attractive to you.

That wide demographic also makes it damn near impossible to figure out who we are at any given point in the development of disc golf. For a lot of us, "disc golfer" is all we have in common. That was always enough, though.

 

[dscmn]

WooHoo! Looks like the long overdue elimination of the "pro" and "am" designations is on the horizon.

 

[biscoe]

WooHoo! Looks like the long overdue elimination of the "pro" and "am" designations is on the horizon.

Why do you think that? It looks to me like the distinction is finally on the verge of actually holding some meaning (in terms of the touring pros at least).

 

[Steve West]

WooHoo! Looks like the long overdue elimination of the "pro" and "am" designations is on the horizon.

Why do you think that? It looks to me like the distinction is finally on the verge of actually holding some meaning (in terms of the touring pros at least).

It could be both. Create a division for those actually making a living at disc golf. Allow everyone else to play for cash if they want, without forcing them to compete against the real pros.

 

[Three Putt]

It could be both. Create a division for those actually making a living at disc golf. Allow everyone else to play for cash if they want, without forcing them to compete against the real pros.

You can do this already; just play C Tiers.

I'm trying not to be cynical, but for me this really doesn't change anything on its face. There really is very little new here. The events we are talking about already existed. The tour we are talking about already existed. The Super Pro classification of players basically only playing DGPT already exists. The changing reality for places holding A Tiers hoping to attract top players was already happening.

All that really changed so far as I can see is that top players will have five fewer chances to complain about the PDGA next year. Otherwise, there isn't much to see here.

 

[dscmn]

It could be both. Create a division for those actually making a living at disc golf. Allow everyone else to play for cash if they want, without forcing them to compete against the real pros.

Bingo. TDs can run cash prizes or otherwise, players can choose to play in whatever type of event interests them.

 

[natedg1976]

With 2 more DGPT stops (DDO & Texas States) next year they could alter their points structure from top 8 (2/3rds of 12, drop up to 4) finishes to top 9 (2/3rds of 14, drop up to 5) or leave it at 8 which allows for dropping up to 6. I don't expect any of the PDGA Majors will count toward DGPT standings but some of the Europe stops may be treated like Silver Series according to the DGPT announcement. Masters Cup and BSF both are confirmed Silver Series with Music City potentially joining.

Could see these 5 being the least entered (by player choice) of the DGPT:

• Idlewild
• Preserve
• DGLO
• OTB Open
• Vegas

One other wrinkle mentioned in the DGPT announcement will limit the last 2 DGPT event fields

You're crazy if you think the Preserve is gonna have people missing it for the euro tour or anything else. Preserve is one of the best set of courses in the United States and that tourney was well received by all that attended.

 

[natedg1976]

Going to Europe and doing a tour with multiple tournaments/clinics/signing sessions to interact with the fans there is part of the appeal to the individual players and their sponsors (who also sponsor events on the DGPT). There is a large enough group that wouldn't have the opportunity to go overseas that familiar faces would still remain stateside bringing in views on the DGN live broadcast.

DGPT is not restrained as a US national tour either. They had scheduled the PCS Sula Open as a Pro tour event this year (maybe this is what you were getting at with the European Open Major being scheduled there). Curious what the logistics for the potential overseas broadcast were going to be (transporting the cameras/latency with the DGN networking) but I think it would be a cool idea for DGN to expand and have separate parallel streams run with international commentators/advertising for some of the events they host. If the Euro Tour/Euro PT is able to set up live streaming then DGN could potentially host & stream those as well.

No matter what you think, US players are not gonna miss DGPT events to play in Europe. It's not financially sound. You can keep dreaming, but it's not gonna happen.

 

[Jimb]

No matter what you think, US players are not gonna miss DGPT events to play in Europe. It's not financially sound. You can keep dreaming, but it's not gonna happen.

I appreciate what you're saying. However, I don't know if "financially sound" necessarily comes into play for all of the players. The opportunity to get to go to Europe, possibly including countries that some have never been to before, might be incentive enough.

I mean, you're going to Europe, to play disc golf, and possibly make some money. Even if not breaking even it still sounds like a nice vacation/work mix.

I've been wrong before,

Spoiler

I know it's the internet and I'm not supposed to admit that kind of thing.

but it wouldn't surprise me to see some players make the trip abroad.

 

[natedg1976]

I appreciate what you're saying. However, I don't know if "financially sound" necessarily comes into play for all of the players. The opportunity to get to go to Europe, possibly including countries that some have never been to before, might be incentive enough.

I mean, you're going to Europe, to play disc golf, and possibly make some money. Even if not breaking even it still sounds like a nice vacation/work mix.

I've been wrong before,

Spoiler

I know it's the internet and I'm not supposed to admit that kind of thing.

but it wouldn't surprise me to see some players make the trip abroad.

So you think a trip to Europe outweighs points in what has become the premier disc golf tour in the world right now? Please mail me what you're smoking because it has you thinking really wrong. Not one player in the US is gonna risk not qualifying for the championship to go on a tour of Europe. It is not at all financially sound for the top players in the states where all the top players come from.

 

[natedg1976]

I appreciate what you're saying. However, I don't know if "financially sound" necessarily comes into play for all of the players. The opportunity to get to go to Europe, possibly including countries that some have never been to before, might be incentive enough.

I mean, you're going to Europe, to play disc golf, and possibly make some money. Even if not breaking even it still sounds like a nice vacation/work mix.

I've been wrong before,

Spoiler

I know it's the internet and I'm not supposed to admit that kind of thing.

but it wouldn't surprise me to see some players make the trip abroad.

As a matter of fact I see it the opposite. European players are going to be more present here in the States because that's where the real money is. The Euro tour pales in comparison to the DGPT.

 

[Jimb]

So you think a trip to Europe outweighs points in what has become the premier disc golf tour in the world right now? Please mail me what you're smoking because it has you thinking really wrong. Not one player in the US is gonna risk not qualifying for the championship to go on a tour of Europe. It is not at all financially sound for the top players in the states where all the top players come from.

Umm, OK. I post an opinion, not stating anything as fact, mentioning just a possibility of something that could happen, too and you come at me like that? Wow!

I won't get into a p*ssing match with you. I've seen too many threads end up down that route before.

 

[Ahildy13]

As a matter of fact I see it the opposite. European players are going to be more present here in the States because that's where the real money is. The Euro tour pales in comparison to the DGPT.

The money is in online content.

The top rated players are not currently the top rated content players.

 

[Ryan P.]

So you think a trip to Europe outweighs points in what has become the premier disc golf tour in the world right now? Please mail me what you're smoking because it has you thinking really wrong. Not one player in the US is gonna risk not qualifying for the championship to go on a tour of Europe. It is not at all financially sound for the top players in the states where all the top players come from.

I'll simply chime in that some players are making enough money and are more concerned with other things. I wouldn't be surprised to see Eagle or Simon skip a DGPT event to get in a few extra practice rounds for the European Open, especially since Discmania runs the event. I also see Paul potentially missing Idlewild (right before the EO) because he's concerned about his legacy (and he's skipped Idlewild before). I'm not saying they will skip it; I'm saying that money isn't the only thing that runs these guy's lives (thankfully).

You might be right; Jim might be right. But your insistence that you know the internal motivations of all the pros is a lot less likely to be right.

 

[jsc430]

It's not necessarily an issue. DGN is all-in on live coverage, but serious post production crews don't have any trouble getting access to the tournaments.

If anything, Jomez benefits, because DGPT calls the shots in terms of which crews get which cards for each tournament. Jomez has had MPO lead card at any DGPT event they choose to cover. Those are surely the most lucrative rounds to have on film (on average).

DGPT certainly has the power to limit post-pro access, and handle it more in house. But that hypothetical puts a lot more work on DGPT's plate. I don't see that happening in 2022, because the Pro Tour is intending to expand to include a lot of the [formerly] NT events.

The DGPT has the option to get greedy with coverage rights, but not the motivation. Right now the high-quality post produced coverage gets more eyes on the DGPT events. No reason to mess up that arrangement.

Well thays not exactly how it happened