Never buying innova/discraft again

[Nasty Nate]

I don't think it's that big of a deal. I have rarely bought a disc that didn't work the way I wanted it to. They've figured out how to make plastic discs fly pretty well.

Also it's kind of helpful to have varying plastics and stabilities of the same disc.

 

[the1discChallenge]

Similar stuff that's been said, but I don't throw Innova for that reason to, OP. MVP is magically consistent, which is why it's half of my bag. I've been trying out some legacy and finding a similar issue as Innova, BUT, the colors and runs are very consistent. For example, I throw Outlaws and each color or the pinnacle runs have a certain quality. So all of the aquas are beefy, all of thee lavenders are less os. It's not like innova where each disc is different regardless of color. It's pretty regular.

 

[Stardoggy]

Speaking as someone with a chemistry degree, I am very impressed with all of these companies for being able to make the quality of discs that they do, especially when they're at the mercy of their vendors for the source materials. IIRC, Mr. Dave Dunipace said that the quality and consistency of the source materials can vary greatly from batch to batch. Yes, I'd like to see perfection in consistency as well, but in the real world I'm impressed that they do as well as they do...

I work with plastics on a daily basis. Injection molding, roto molding, thermoforming...plastic is all the same. There isn't a single batch of pellets or sheet that's the same as the last one.

It doesn't matter what company is making discs. They're all at the mercy of their raw material suppliers.

 

[SD86]

It doesn't matter what company is making discs. They're all at the mercy of their raw material suppliers.

I think we're agreeing on something. This may be the cause of those recent earthquakes in Japan.

 

[Reniger]

I work with plastics on a daily basis. Injection molding, roto molding, thermoforming...plastic is all the same. There isn't a single batch of pellets or sheet that's the same as the last one.

It doesn't matter what company is making discs. They're all at the mercy of their raw material suppliers.

I'm the Operations Manager for a 2nd Tier manufacturer in the Automotive industry in Michigan with suppliers in Michigan, Illinois, Kentucky, Texas, Taiwan, China, Mexico, and Canada. This is all too true. Quality spills from 3rd tier vendors with inconsistent supply cost automotive vendors millions of dollars per year.

 

[ZAMson]

To the OP: never stopped me from throwing Innova.


To the plastics guys and people who have heard this from from molders:

Aren't we told over and over that the cooling stage is where things shrink a little, and the plate cooling pulls the nose up? And we all know how important PLH is.

So if the nose is not present when the plate and core cools, and the nose is added later, wouldn't that be a significant step toward combating that variable of the nose being pulled up by the plate? Wouldn't a bulky rim shoulder hold its form better than the thin nose during this plate shrink?

Still doesn't make any plastic-injected disc perfectly consistent, but is it completely insignificant to mold the nose afterward?

 

[DG_Before_Breakfast]

We all have our own axe to grind over the unique snowflakes that we call Discs. Just don't pretend your experience is universally applicable to everyone else.

For example, I had the most amazing worn in Vibram Lace. That thing turn over so smoothly, and glided forever, on a good release. I parked Hole 7 at Delaveaga 2 times in the long position with this Disc, and had several more shots that were the right shape and within 50. I lost it, got a new one, wore that in - it never worked anywhere close to my old Lace. When they came out with an unLace, I got one of those thinking it might be like my old worn in Lace - no dice. I have yet to come within 50 feet of that pin on Hole 7 again with any disc (last week I got about 50 feet away with a Legacy Phenom).

I've had "bad" experiences with MVP as well, although mostly on first runs.. My first run Shock was far less stable than my mainline Volt or Amp. The production Shock is a ton more stable. My first run Amp was far more stable than my mainline Volt. My Dye-Max Neutron Volt (ty CCDG!) was a lot more stable than my regular Neutron Volt, same for a Proton Volt - although at least you could explain those by the plastic difference or addition of DyeMax. The thing about those Discs though is I liked them all anyway. That FR Shock in particular was my main understable fairway driver for a long while, and actually missed it until I discovered the Legacy Patriot.

 

[Stardoggy]

To the OP: never stopped me from throwing Innova.


To the plastics guys and people who have heard this from from molders:

Aren't we told over and over that the cooling stage is where things shrink a little, and the plate cooling pulls the nose up? And we all know how important PLH is.

So if the nose is not present when the plate and core cools, and the nose is added later, wouldn't that be a significant step toward combating that variable of the nose being pulled up by the plate? Wouldn't a bulky rim shoulder hold its form better than the thin nose during this plate shrink?

Still doesn't make any plastic-injected disc perfectly consistent, but is it completely insignificant to mold the nose afterward?

Many factors affect how plastics cool and take their final form. Overmolding will have its own inherent problems.

In other words, no matter how you mold up your plastic parts, they're never going to be perfectly the same. That overmold process is still using consistently inconsistent plastics.

 

[hook_nuts]

I love the inconsistency of Innova which isnt horrible. Buy stacks of xouts and test them out. The less stable ones mean I don't have to use as much sandpaper.

 

[ZAMson]

Many factors affect how plastics cool and take their final form. Overmolding will have its own inherent problems.

In other words, no matter how you mold up your plastic parts, they're never going to be perfectly the same. That overmold process is still using consistently inconsistent plastics.

Appreciate the answer, and I included that perfect consistency wasn't possible.

Still, not all manufacturers have to leave their noses shifting around in the breeze while the rest of the disc does whatever deformations during cooling.

 

[crd 81]

Consistency is next to impossible with the various runs of a single mold. Sure some companies are going to be better than others, but there are going to be problems.

Instead of getting turned off by inconsistencies, embrace them. That is, however, with a caveat: make sure it is a good mold (preferably stable). For example, take a mold that is generally consist and solid like the Teebird, Eagle-x, PD, Predator, Orion LF, etc and fill each role between overstable-to-understable. In doing so you have one mold covering different shots without having to break them in as much. Inconsistencies are going to happen so take the good with the bad from a solid mold. Don't get turned off by it but embrace it.

 

[tomsdiscs]

Plastic can me rendered to exact specifications that are way beyond human perception, ask any chemical engineer, but the problem is the cost will go up up up, and disc golf can not afford that level of precision, though aerospace, medical, and high tech can.

I agree that almost all disc golf manufacturers are putting out lots of bad discs these days, they are warped, contracted, etc.

I have also noticed that some runs of Innova discs are covered in oil and I wonder if that oil is coming out of the plastic as they probably buy some bulk recycled pellets that could be dirty, or whether Innova is purposely adding oil to the injection mold so the disc can be pulled from the mold without sticking too much in the hopes that will help prevent warping as it cools.

Recent examples of oily runs are the new Brinster Destroyers, and the production runs of Metal Flake Destroyers and Katanas.

 

[BionicRib]

To the op.....buy salient. They are probably still on their first batch of plastic

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I can remember in the old days Cyclones flying differently based on their colors. I think the dark green ones were the ones serious players liked?

 

[IllustratorVir]

I can remember in the old days Cyclones flying differently based on their colors. I think the dark green ones were the ones serious players liked?

Didn't discraft has this problem at one point, too? I remember I had a pink Z-Talon that was the most overstable thing I ever threw.

 

[armiller]

Just recently I was looking into some understable putters and was considering a Summit. In the end, nothing on this thread had any impact. I could get a D-line Reef for $6.99, but a Summit would've run me over $14. I'd still love to throw a Summit, but the price was right elsewhere.

 

[AppleIdisc]

It's not only the constancy but that's the biggest part. It's also the mass disc options. I just thought it'd be really amazing having 4drivers, 4fairways, 2midranges that you know how they all fly. Got a solid back wind? Ok I'll throw the lace. No wind? I'll throw the olace. Heavy headwind? I'll throw the solace. It's so simple. Prodigy does this too which I like.

 

[Improbably]

It's not only the constancy but that's the biggest part. It's also the mass disc options. I just thought it'd be really amazing having 4drivers, 4fairways, 2midranges that you know how they all fly. Got a solid back wind? Ok I'll throw the lace. No wind? I'll throw the olace. Heavy headwind? I'll throw the solace. It's so simple. Prodigy does this too which I like.

So you're comforted by their marketing strategy?

 

[scarpfish]

It's not only the constancy but that's the biggest part. It's also the mass disc options. I just thought it'd be really amazing having 4drivers, 4fairways, 2midranges that you know how they all fly. Got a solid back wind? Ok I'll throw the lace. No wind? I'll throw the olace. Heavy headwind? I'll throw the solace. It's so simple. Prodigy does this too which I like.

Ahh yes, simplicity. A notion marketed to the simple minded who would rather have their available options cut than be overwhelmed by having them.

Whatever works for you.

 

[Quinum]

You will find inconsistencies from every manufacturer. This is why it is a good idea to by a couple backups in the same plastic/color/weight when you find a disc you love to throw.