Newbie disc weight question!

[Kennets]

My posts might've come off wrong and I apologize if you took them personal. It were never my intention.. for anyone in this thread.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Haha I just wanted to pick an argument while I was getting through my coffee. I'm still right BTW . I think proper speed is most important with weight a close second. We have all been there, some of us learned faster than others, I learned the hard way with the exception of some DGCR wisdom.

I don't think we're directing it at Chris but Chrisinfl is fitting the stereotypical new golfer perfectly. He's bright eyed, entusiastic and enamored. He's currently at the 3rd stage of DG addiction: plastic hungry and trying to find an easy extra 20'. Luckily hes got some decent advice and a solid clue.

You just see it coming, kinda like when when us boys would get an idea and the old man had been there done that, a few times.

"Fill yer boots and let me know how it goes!"

 

[BillFleming]

Chiming in with my experience with disc weights.

First and most important.....find out what is the max speed you can throw with the max weight and have the disc perform as it should. I throw 42ish MPH, and have found that a 7 speed is the fastest I can throw with max weight and have it perform properly. I can throw faster discs with max weight, but they aren't going to get much more distance and aren't going to perform as intended.

Second.....when going to lower weights - it is incremental. With me as an example....I throw max weight 7 speeds (172-174), but when I go to a 9 speed, I don't throw 150 or lower. Why not? Because it isn't necessary. 8 to 9 speed means a 165-168 gram disc. 10 to 11 speed, I'm wanting a 155ish disc weight. 12 speed, it's going to be 135-139 weight.

To get a 9 speed to fly well enough for me to use it with my 42ish MPH throw, I only need it a bit lighter and the 165-168 range is light enough. Any lighter and the disc isn't working for me. It can be tough figuring out the 'sweet' spot of too heavy or too light. But don't jump from a heavy weight disc at one speed to a lot lighter weight at the next higher speed.

In my bag, you won't find any disc 7 speed or less that is under 172 grams. And you will only find one disc over 7 speed that is in the 170+ weight. (I have a 174 gram MVP Wave- 11 speed - that meets a need...but it rarely gets thrown due to the weight/speed combo).

 

[lee76007]

Some good stuff by ThrowaEnvy and Bill Flemming about matching arm speed with disc speed and weight, with age playing a role. I'll throw in dome vs flat. And to each his own on form. I'm having to examine the past few months, as I've been form building almost three years. Last year's 2-step was great for lighter weight disc, not so much for this year's 3-step. Heavier weight disc is flying further out compared to last year. I would get more into it, but I need to get my beauty sleep for tomorrows rounds. I'll share some thoughts later.

 

[TiltedFlipCurves]

I have some light discs under 160 but am not really a fan. They seem harder to control than heavier discs for me. Could be I'm more used to bowling balls

So I'm throwing more midranges and fewer drivers off tees lately. Specifically Cobras & Rocs. They're consistent for whatever I'm doing, glide out rather than dump out, and do what I want more often than a lot of the fairway drivers I have. Distance drivers, only a couple that are even almost OK (old Fission Wave, Relativity, roller DX Boss). Bonus is that the midranges should be good up to 400 feet and in MA3/MA4 I need to hit fairways rather than bomb drives anyway. Double bonus: my 180g Cobra goes as far out as my new G* Valkyrie & Destroyer but without the fade.

tl;dr: Try throwing more midranges.

 

[geebob]

First and most important.....find out what is the max speed you can throw with the max weight and have the disc perform as it should. I throw 42ish MPH, and have found that a 7 speed is the fastest I can throw with max weight and have it perform properly.

I'm pretty close to that as well. I can throw a 9 speed that's 160-165g with decent results and consistency. There are some 7 speed discs that work well for me at 170+g, but I'll leave them and the 9 speed discs in the bag on days when I feel like a rusty hinge. For those days, the mid-ranges shift into the driver slots and I'll generally have an ok day depending on what course I'm playing.

 

[Sheep]

Must. Resist. Urge.

20 grams is NOT gonna make any difference for people that throw in the 150-300 range, that's a basic form issue.

Hey now, It makes all the difference for me!

I think the more correct way to say it would be this.

"For those who throw under 250 feet, the weight of the disc doesn't have much, if any, affect on distance."

Then again.
It may.
There really isn't a good way for us to say for certain it doesn't. But it's hard to tell when you throwing sub 200 on stuff. Because at that point, it definitely is a form issue.

The biggest cases though where you can see the differences is when you're teaching sub 13 year old players.
And you watch them try and use their tiny bodies to huck max weight frisbees. and they can barely do it.
But you hand them 155 stuff and suddenly they are out to 250+

But pound for pound.
Clean noodle arm form should get you a 250 throw with a straight flying disc regardless of weight.

And.. A majority of my bag is lightweight stuff. Cause, honestly, its waaay easier to throw light weight stuff if you just trying to throw calm and relaxed. I don't have to focus on trying to pop lightweight stuff as much.

But then, I don't throw far. so whatever. haha.

 

[Sheep]

Hmmm well I tried to slice and dice and respond to the quotes but I'm having trouble with the new platform haha.

If weight doesn't make a difference let me ask you this... Do you enjoy throwing 180g mids? Can you throw a 174g mid cleaner than a 180g? That's only 6g.

Personally my preferred comet weight is 174-176, Buzzz I used to use a 170 and a 174g. Hex/Reactor/wasp 170g or the 155 fission reactor. The only mid at 180g that I really click with is the soft uplink with -3 turn, that baby hums as far as a fairway driver.

When I'm curious what the MVP pros are bagging I'm checking the ladies lighter bags, not the dudes.

MVP was one of the few companies to make some 130 stuff. Granola, grandola? Kimberly. She throws a ton of 150 and sub 150 stuff.
it depends on the lady too, Hokom throws all sorts of things. Not sure on melwiki and jsaw anymore. They... barely play. Madison I believe is throwing a lot of lighter stuff, she was looking for 150 class stuff when she joined.

The new quote stuff is .. weird. now I've figured it out, its not bad. But ... I duno if ya'll phone or pooter users. Cause I dont' do this stuff on my phone.

I do know, especially in MVP world, that that 6/7 gram difference is huge.
We try and put it in our minds that its not a big deal because its small numbers, but think of it like this. Were performing an aggressive atheletic movement that requires dexterity and timing.
Sometimes that 5 or 10 grams is all you need to get things into time easily.
Then you look at discs like MVP and people cannot throw them, but you hand them a 165-168 version of that disc and they can throw it just fine.

So some of the weight stuff comes down to speed and what your body is capable of.
And I think the biggest takeaway should be this about weight.

Matching the discs/weight to your abilities is what is important. I throw 150 to 175 in my bag. well 180, cause mids. But.. I digress. They all have their purpose. And some of my discs are 150 class because I know I can easily over speed them to get them to work vs trying to really huff on a 175 version.

I haven't played around with a full bag of lighter discs, but I might do at some point and possibly eat all of my words.

I play with a lot of the OG 80's players. I fit right in with my blown out knees, smashed up back and messed up shoulder. They all throwing that lightweight stuff except for certain discs.
I'd say the main benefit is this.
And its somewhat mental. It's a lot easier to just slow down and focus down a light disc vs a heavy one. So you can/will naturally just throw with a bit more relaxed posture when you throw a few of them the first couple times and go "dang, did I just turn that over?"
Then you slow it down and suddenly you're using lower effort, but back distance wise to something easy to work with.

I get it. I hear over and over, form, form, form. I just don't think the people saying that are paying much attention to the fact that I am working diligently and consistently on form.

Come on, give me some improvement! On the light weight discs, I also find Fission Wave, Katana and Corvette do well for me.

The biggest thing I can tell you is this. Because I'm on the lightweight disc size.
But based on a lot of the things you have said, you really really need to disc down.
katana and corvette? I wont even throw those. Those discs are designed for people who throw 500+ feet.

Think of it this way when it comes to discs, not just in weight. You gotta think about what the disc is designed to do. Waves are good discs, but they are designed to throw 400-500 feet. For an am player with halfway okay form, they put you in the 350 range.
When you are developing your form and throwing discs above your skill level, you end up actually hurting your form as you spend more time trying to force the disc to do what you want it to do vs throwing discs that will naturally do that matched to your skill level.

I'm sitting on 6+ years of disc golf now and teaching for 4. 70% of my bag is 6 speed drivers. I have 3 11 speeds in there and 3 9 speeds. That's it. 6 speed discs are good for flights up to 400-450 feet. And they are WAY more forgiving than trying to throw an 11 speed. I

I have some light discs under 160 but am not really a fan. They seem harder to control than heavier discs for me. Could be I'm more used to bowling balls

So I'm throwing more midranges and fewer drivers off tees lately. Specifically Cobras & Rocs. They're consistent for whatever I'm doing, glide out rather than dump out, and do what I want more often than a lot of the fairway drivers I have. Distance drivers, only a couple that are even almost OK (old Fission Wave, Relativity, roller DX Boss). Bonus is that the midranges should be good up to 400 feet and in MA3/MA4 I need to hit fairways rather than bomb drives anyway. Double bonus: my 180g Cobra goes as far out as my new G* Valkyrie & Destroyer but without the fade.

tl;dr: Try throwing more midranges.

Midranges FTW. My god do I have so many midranges here.

Also also.
A lot of people do struggle to throw lighter discs, They throw off your timing if you're not used to them.
So, if you've ever wondered whats going on there, that's it. It's a weird timing thing.

 

[BillFleming]

But pound for pound.
Clean noodle arm form should get you a 250 throw with a straight flying disc regardless of weight.

I cut out a bunch of your comments....to focus on the statement above.

That's the main thing to consider with weights and I fully agree with it. BUT...the thing to remember is if your 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 speeds are ALL going right around 250 at max weight, you need to start considering lighter weights for those faster discs. You probably won't see the distance difference that a player throwing all max weight at the proper speed gets, but you will see a bit more distance. I get 250 with my 5 speeds. A 9 speed at 172 goes right around 250 and dumps hard left. At 165 grams a 9 speed will get out to around 280 with a slight fade left. That's a huge difference for me....I'll never get the full distance from a 9 speed that someone who can throw a max weight one properly will get....but that extra bit of distance works for me.

 

[Kennets]

Hey now, It makes all the difference for me!

I think the more correct way to say it would be this.

"For those who throw under 250 feet, the weight of the disc doesn't have much, if any, affect on distance."

Then again.
It may.
There really isn't a good way for us to say for certain it doesn't. But it's hard to tell when you throwing sub 200 on stuff. Because at that point, it definitely is a form issue.

The biggest cases though where you can see the differences is when you're teaching sub 13 year old players.
And you watch them try and use their tiny bodies to huck max weight frisbees. and they can barely do it.
But you hand them 155 stuff and suddenly they are out to 250+

But pound for pound.
Clean noodle arm form should get you a 250 throw with a straight flying disc regardless of weight.

And.. A majority of my bag is lightweight stuff. Cause, honestly, its waaay easier to throw light weight stuff if you just trying to throw calm and relaxed. I don't have to focus on trying to pop lightweight stuff as much.

But then, I don't throw far. so whatever. haha.

Thanks for the sober reply mate, I might have been too pumped when I wrote that message lol.

As I said, some people would definitely benefit from throwing them, even I, being completely broken everywhere, might benefit from it, who knows?

For me personally, I'm not in "need" on distance and I don't throw far, at all. Luckily where I'm based, we don't have many 400' holes from the intermediate tees. Sure, throwing 500' would be a blast, but I would rather be able to hit 330 with a smooth form, that causes next to no strain on the body really.

That's why I speak so highly of improving form, to prevent Injuries. You make a good point in how having a lightweight disc "might" contribute to slow down and focus in being smooth, I like that!

 

[Kennets]

I cut out a bunch of your comments....to focus on the statement above.

That's the main thing to consider with weights and I fully agree with it. BUT...the thing to remember is if your 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 speeds are ALL going right around 250 at max weight, you need to start considering lighter weights for those faster discs. You probably won't see the distance difference that a player throwing all max weight at the proper speed gets, but you will see a bit more distance. I get 250 with my 5 speeds. A 9 speed at 172 goes right around 250 and dumps hard left. At 165 grams a 9 speed will get out to around 280 with a slight fade left. That's a huge difference for me....I'll never get the full distance from a 9 speed that someone who can throw a max weight one properly will get....but that extra bit of distance works for me.

I'm just curious (and not being a dick). What if you were to throw a more understable speed 9? What are your results there? I'm just curious if I'm missing out here. I'll usually got more understandable (or actually disc down) and not down in weight, if a certain throw dumps to early on me.

I bag a max weight destroyer and there's no way I can throw that 400 (unless I do an ugly FH annie), so I would usually go to my max weight grace that would flip up and hold a decent turn if I'm trying to throw 400 ~. And for a full rip, I might even go more Flippy. My first 400 + throws were with a sidewinder thrown on a steep hyzer angle. Come to think about it, I actually think that disc was around 162 gram, so y'all might got a point lol

 

[RowingBoats]

I finally lost my Fission wave the other day because there was a hidden headwind and that thing just sailed all the way across a deep river. I do recommend checking out light weight Fission discs though, these aren't a gimmick.

I have mostly swapped the Waves for Photons now, and have a couple of 150g Photons. These things absolutely bomb and I cannot recommend checking them out enough. I can standstill toss those things 400' without throwing them sky high, nor do they travel with that much turn/fade. They didn't even take long to break in. Magical discs.

 

[BillFleming]

I'm just curious (and not being a dick). What if you were to throw a more understable speed 9? What are your results there? I'm just curious if I'm missing out here. I'll usually got more understandable (or actually disc down) and not down in weight, if a certain throw dumps to early on me.

I bag a max weight destroyer and there's no way I can throw that 400 (unless I do an ugly FH annie), so I would usually go to my max weight grace that would flip up and hold a decent turn if I'm trying to throw 400 ~. And for a full rip, I might even go more Flippy. My first 400 + throws were with a sidewinder thrown on a steep hyzer angle. Come to think about it, I actually think that disc was around 162 gram, so y'all might got a point lol

Don't worry....you aren't being a dick....good question. I do throw understable drivers. My Axiom Insanity is 9/5/-2.5/1.5 at 164 grams. My main MVP Wave 11/5/-2.5/2 (slightly understable) is 148 - I have a 156 gram Wave that works better in wind....but it still isn't max weight and I lose a bit of distance. When I throw my 172 gram Wave, I lose distance with it...but with a headwind, the extra weight is worth the distance I lose.

I do have an Axiom Virus (9/5/-3/1) in 172 grams, but I get more distance with my 164 Insanity. The Virus fills my need for an really understable flight; again, the loss of distance is a trade-off that I'm willing to accept when needed.

The most important thing about deciding between understable or lower weight is....how fast do you throw a disc? If you can't throw a disc as fast as it needs to be thrown to get the designed flight, then a lighter disc is really called for. A lighter disc can fly further at a lower speed. Understability can help if form isn't the best....especially if you release on more of a hyzer than the disc calls for. The understability thrown on a hzyzer angle can cause it to flip up to flat, carry farther, and have a good fade.

When I'm throwing 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11 speeds at max weight and they all go pretty much the same distance....that's an issue with the weight....my arm speed cannot propel the higher speed discs fast enough. So that calls for a lighter weight disc. Now, if my 8, 9, 10, and 11 speed discs were all going incrementally further but dumping left.....then it would call for the same weight but more understablity.

 

[Sheep]

That's the main thing to consider with weights and I fully agree with it. BUT...the thing to remember is if your 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 speeds are ALL going right around 250 at max weight, you need to start considering lighter weights for those faster discs. You probably won't see the distance difference that a player throwing all max weight at the proper speed gets, but you will see a bit more distance. I get 250 with my 5 speeds. A 9 speed at 172 goes right around 250 and dumps hard left. At 165 grams a 9 speed will get out to around 280 with a slight fade left. That's a huge difference for me....I'll never get the full distance from a 9 speed that someone who can throw a max weight one properly will get....but that extra bit of distance works for me.

The key on this one is "straight" flight.

But yeah, if you throw all your discs only 250 feet, just throw the one that you throw the most accurate and toss the rest into the save for later bin at home.
Then build off the speed of that disc and get you a little more os and little more us disc and throw those.

We overcomplicate discs way to much.
It's one of the reasons I just started throwing 6 speeds.
I "can" throw 11 speeds, but I can thow 6 speeds 400 feet with less effort, so why would I want to always have to lay down the extra effort for performance? That's the way I look at it now. Find the disc that gets you the easiest throw and best most reliable control and distance. Just work off that. Supplement it with maybe a few higher speed discs for some utility or head wind issues, and.. Just go throw good, vs trying to push discs around.
This is my new mentality anyways.
If it wasn't 6 speeds, it would probably be a bag full of 15 midranges.

Thanks for the sober reply mate, I might have been too pumped when I wrote that message lol.

As I said, some people would definitely benefit from throwing them, even I, being completely broken everywhere, might benefit from it, who knows?


That's why I speak so highly of improving form, to prevent Injuries. You make a good point in how having a lightweight disc "might" contribute to slow down and focus in being smooth, I like that!

Light weight = Lower Impact.
Being as broken as I am, that's what got me into teaching and learning about form more. I got tired of blowing my bad shoulder out arming discs. Figured there had to be a better way.

The problem teaching wise though is when you try and teach other individuals that have limitations in injuries to do the right thing and push them self a hair more than they are to get what they want, cause they tend to over protect themselves, and.. I don't blame them. But if you want more, you gotta learn to push safely.

People give me crap for how I throw, it's to protect my knees. I can throw the other way, but it puts a LOT of strain on my right knee, and its the more badder of the 2.
With no ligaments really doing anything in either knee. it's.. interesting sometimes, but using good stable powered positions is part of the key and just good mechanics and trying to use as many muscle groups in tandem to reduce strain.

I'm just curious (and not being a dick). What if you were to throw a more understable speed 9? What are your results there? I'm just curious if I'm missing out here. I'll usually got more understandable (or actually disc down) and not down in weight, if a certain throw dumps to early on me.

I bag a max weight destroyer and there's no way I can throw that 400 (unless I do an ugly FH annie), so I would usually go to my max weight grace that would flip up and hold a decent turn if I'm trying to throw 400 ~. And for a full rip, I might even go more Flippy. My first 400 + throws were with a sidewinder thrown on a steep hyzer angle. Come to think about it, I actually think that disc was around 162 gram, so y'all might got a point lol

Understable discs are where its at.
I'm not sure why everyone is always so dead set on overstable stuff. Throw that flippy everything. Overstable is for wind and utility and guys with lots of power. hahaha.

I finally lost my Fission wave the other day because there was a hidden headwind and that thing just sailed all the way across a deep river. I do recommend checking out light weight Fission discs though, these aren't a gimmick.

I have mostly swapped the Waves for Photons now, and have a couple of 150g Photons. These things absolutely bomb and I cannot recommend checking them out enough. I can standstill toss those things 400' without throwing them sky high, nor do they travel with that much turn/fade. They didn't even take long to break in. Magical discs.

150 photon club here bru.

 

[geebob]

I'm just curious (and not being a dick). What if you were to throw a more understable speed 9? What are your results there? I'm just curious if I'm missing out here. I'll usually got more understandable (or actually disc down) and not down in weight, if a certain throw dumps to early on me.

I talked about my experience with three different weights of Sidewinders in this post.

Cliff Notes version: throwing a disc with less than minimum speed usually produces a hard crash to the left. Understables (Sidewinders) crash just as badly as the Overstables (Thunderbirds).

 

[BillFleming]

People give me crap for how I throw, it's to protect my knees. I can throw the other way, but it puts a LOT of strain on my right knee, and its the more badder of the 2.
With no ligaments really doing anything in either knee. it's.. interesting sometimes, but using good stable powered positions is part of the key and just good mechanics and trying to use as many muscle groups in tandem to reduce strain.

Ignore the ones who give you crap on how you throw. Results are all that matter. When I played ball golf, I knew a guy who's swing was so horrendous it was fun to watch. And yet he hit that ball a long ways, dead straight. It was amazing. Yet, every time I played with him or was on the driving range with him....someone tried to 'correct' his swing.

As for me and what I throw....I mainly throw my 7 speeds and less. They are what perform best for me and they are what I have the most of in my bag. But I do carry a few higher speed discs in lighter weights for when I just need that 30 to 50 feet of extra distance. As for understable discs....it's weird but 5 and 6 speed understable discs just don't work for me no matter how much I try. 7 speed and above...understable is the main way to go. I really, really want my MVP Uplink (5/5/-3/0.5) and/or Axiom Paradox (5/4/-4/0) to work for me, but so far - no go. And there are times when I could really use their understability. But in those cases, I jump up to one of my faster, lightweight, understable discs.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

What Sheep was saying.. reallybjots home and relates and it goes double for me.

Protected form is something to consider.. I should drop into my form rebuilding thread haha. I'm infinitely more broken then when I started breaking it down in the spring, I was making gains but not letting my lead foot turn, rediscovered a knee injury that I incurred about 10yrs ago doing the same thing... AHA!! HA ha CRAP

That set me back pretty bad the first time, with the surgery and almost worse this time especially after the weed eater with the blade elbow injury (thats been 3 months). I've been able to take what I was learning and reapply it. To a new bastardized Protected form. Protecting my elbow has led to a less arm heavy (and easier) motion but I doubt if I will ever plant properly.

TLDR: I learned enough mechanics to really hurt myself pushing a FR ESP Force 350'. And again.
LET YOUR LEAD FOOT TURN!

As far as discs go the Paradox is goofy but I know a guy that throws it well, I like my uplink but a 155 reactor has been a little more forgiving.

Magic discs???! I got em all... I am no longer searching for something like that, if I have an urge I pull one out and give it a go... consistency is better than a possible extra 30' but IME:

143g fission slightly domey and chalky photon FR, yeah it's all that and a bag of chips.

Waves, 155-165 fizz, N and plaz. Best understable glide for the buck, flat, flip and carve. I got a Monocacy 172g pfn plasma that hums too, and its two green twins that are barely usable for me.

155 fr se octane, just like a wave that fights back, gotta throw it flattish it's not an anny disc.

Vanish gets an HM. And the inertia gets an underappreciated HM. I never did have a lot of luck with the insanity as "understable", got couple haha cosmic n 157g with the absorb81 se stamp that's stable wave distance.

Other discs from inferior manufacturers: beast, sidewinder, avenger ss, nuke, bolt. Also Terns and shrykes i hear but I haven't thrown em.

 

[ChrisinFL]

I finally lost my Fission wave the other day because there was a hidden headwind and that thing just sailed all the way across a deep river. I do recommend checking out light weight Fission discs though, these aren't a gimmick.

I have mostly swapped the Waves for Photons now, and have a couple of 150g Photons. These things absolutely bomb and I cannot recommend checking them out enough. I can standstill toss those things 400' without throwing them sky high, nor do they travel with that much turn/fade. They didn't even take long to break in. Magical discs.

You make me want to try a Photon!

 

[ChrisinFL]

I talked about my experience with three different weights of Sidewinders in this post.

Cliff Notes version: throwing a disc with less than minimum speed usually produces a hard crash to the left. Understables (Sidewinders) crash just as badly as the Overstables (Thunderbirds).

I have a used Champion Sidewinder that crashes early left every time on me (RHBH). It is supposed to be understable! I try it every time I improve some - so far still always hard crash early. I figured it is a fluke - most of my understable stuff is opposite of that - I have to try to keep them from turning right and flipping over on me, or fight to find and consistently hit the correct amount of hyzer release angle.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

You probably need a lighter one...