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No more Jump Putting?

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PDGA Rules Revision 2017

Below is a list of issues up for discussion with regard to the 2017 revision of the PDGA rules. Note that several related issues may be grouped into one. It is possible that not all the issues below will be addressed. Also, there may be minor changes, such as fixing typos or clarifying language, that we do not consider to warrant proposals.

Working revision (in text form)

ID: For tracking purposes. Does not necessarily reflect order of discussion.
Area: Area of the rules addressed
Title: Links to the proposed change and a summary of the discussion.
Impact: Minor, Moderate, or Major
Synopsis: A brief summary
Status: Preparation, Proposal, Active, Stalled, Passed, Failed, or Closed.
Vote: For / Against (9 committee members)
Board: Accepted, Rejected
ID Area Title Impact Synopsis Status Vote Board
GN-1 General Renumbering Moderate Change rule numbering base from 800 to 100. Closed 5 / 3 Rejected
GN-2 General Restructure Moderate Give rules of play a more natural order so that rules are easier to find. Passed* 8 / 0
GN-3 General Language Minor Make the language less formal and more natural, eg reduce the use of "shall". Passed 7 / 0
GN-4 General Rule tiebreaker Minor If multiple penalties apply, use the one that results in the farthest lie. Passed* 6 / 0
GN-5 General Broken disc Minor Don't say "perforated". Passed* 7 / 0
GN-6 General Throwing order Minor If a throw doesn't change a player's lie (eg on an island OB hole), they throw again. Passed* 7 / 0
GN-7 General Disc-finding aids Minor Allows taped-on lights, ribbons, or chalk for night or snow play. Failed 3 / 4
GN-8 General Order of play Moderate Allow throwing out of turn if no impact on away player. Active 0 / 1
D-1 Definitions Marker Minor Use generic term "marker" rather than "mini marker disc". Failed 2 / 4
D-2 Definitions Throw Minor Clarify definition of "throw". Passed* 6 / 1
D-3 Definitions Official Minor Narrow the definition of "official" to those appointed by TD. Active* 7 / 0
D-4 Definitions Basket Minor Gather basket component definitions under new term "basket". Passed* 7 / 0
D-5 Definitions Casual water Minor Simplify the definition. Passed* 6 / 1
D-6 Definitions Practice throw Minor Disallow practice putts of any distance. Passed* 4 / 1
D-7 Definitions Out-of-bounds Minor Remove two redundant lines from the definition (they appear in the rule). Passed* 6 / 1
ST-1 Stance Stay behind your lie Major Must show balance behind lie for all throws. Fixes jump/step putt issues. Passed*** 4 / 3
ST-2 Stance Can always go past lie Major Remove ten-meter circle restriction. Failed 1 / 6
ST-3 Stance Move putting circle to 50m Major Stay behind your lie when within 50 meters. Passed*** 6 / 1
OB-1 Out-of-bounds TD OB Options Major Remove requirement of waiver for TD to limit OB options Passed** 6 / 1
OB-2 Out-of-bounds No-penalty OB Major Allow for OB areas that do not incur a penalty throw (aka mandatory relief). Passed** 7 / 0
OB-3 Out-of-bounds Lateral hazard Moderate Add TD option to handle OB area as lateral hazard (lie is closest in-bounds point). Failed 1 / 6
OB-4 Out-of-bounds Go directly to drop zone Moderate Add TD option to let players go straight to drop zone without throwing into an OB lake first. Passed* 7 / 0
OB-5 Out-of-bounds Remove previous lie option. Minor It's already available via Optional Re-throw. Passed* 6 / 1
OB-6 Out-of-bounds OB in a corner Minor Guarantee a lie one meter from all OB. Passed* 6 / 1
L-1 Lie Thrown Disc Lie Major Emphasize using thrown disc as lie. If marking, align tail edges. Passed** 7 / 0
HO-1 Holing Out Holing Out Moderate Simplify definition of holing out Passed* 7 / 0
MN-1 Mandatories Clarify mandatory rule Moderate Add idea of mandatory plane. Add height-restricted double. And more. Passed** 6 / 0
MN-2 Mandatories Prohibited and required routes Major A required route has no drop zone or penalty; player simply unwinds until they pass the mando. Passed** 4 / 2
MN-3 Mandatories Simplify mandatory rule Major Simplify the mandatory rule. Failed 3 / 3
INT-1 Interference Intentional interference Minor Consolidate two small rules Passed* 7 / 0
INT-2 Interference Consensual interference Minor Move consensual interference rule to Q&A Failed 3 / 3
INT-3 Interference Intentional self-interference Minor Address intentional self-interference Passed* 7 / 0
INT-4 Interference Self-interference Minor Make unintentional self-interference a one-throw penalty and re-throw Passed* 5 / 1
INT-5 Interference Consensual interference Minor Clarify that consensual interference applies to discs going OB. Passed* 6 / 0
OPT-1 Optional Relief/Re-throw Declare relief Minor Player must declare that they are taking optional relief or re-throw. Passed* 6 / 1
PRO-1 Provisionals Disputed call, same lie Minor There's no need for a provisional unless the disputed call changes the lie. Passed* 6 / 1
PRO-2 Provisionals Limit provisionals Minor Can only have one set of provisional throws on a hole. Passed* 6 / 1
There are three proposals that are new versions of the mandatory rule. MN-1 is a rewrite for clarification and does not change how mandatories are played. MN-2 adds the idea of a required route, which is the old idea of a mando where you need to unwind if you miss (and there's no penalty throw for missing). MN-3 is a much briefer and more general description of mandatories that leaves it up to the TD to describe when they're missed or made. Any proposal that passes will result in the Board choosing their preferred one. Currently MN-2 folds in MN-1. If MN-2 is approved and MN-1 fails, it will be adjusted to reflect the current rule.

The proposals ST-1 through ST-3 are intended to address the issue of jump and step putts, many of which are stance violations that are difficult to call in real time. Each proposal is a substantial change. If any passes a Rules Committee vote and is deemed by the Board to have some value, we could consider an intermediate approach where we introduce it as a discretionary (or even experimental) rule, to be activated by the TD at their discretion.

* Incorporated into working revision.

** Incorporated into working revision, identified with tags showing proposal ID for easy inclusion/removal.

*** Not incorporated into working revision, pending Board action.
 
Nah, that won't work: your face becomes the "supporting point contact." :D

Only if they change the definition of Supporting point. As it is, if your face is not in contact with the playing surface at the time of release, it's not a supporting point.
Supporting Point
At the time of release, any part of a player's body that is in contact with the playing surface or some other object that provides support.
 
Only if they change the definition of Supporting point. As it is, if your face is not in contact with the playing surface at the time of release, it's not a supporting point.
So a literal falling putt is ok as long as your foot doesn't go past your lie? Or if you putt on one foot, then the other foot can land past the lie? :confused:
 
By literal interpretation, yes. Lol
 
Wait til the "can't hold another disc in offhand guys" get ahold of this one. ;)
 
Only if they change the definition of Supporting point. As it is, if your face is not in contact with the playing surface at the time of release, it's not a supporting point.
pdga said:
D. Putting: Any throw from within 10 meters of the target, as measured from the rear of the marker disc to the base of the target, is a putt. Supporting point contact closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker disc after the disc has been released is a stance violation. The player must demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the target.
A face plant is a balance fail.
 
I know it wouldn't be up for change until 2018 according to the PDGA, but if they changed the rule that you couldn't follow through on things like fairway shots and longer approaches I'd stop playing tournaments. My long term health is worth a lot more than playing a few sanctioned tournaments a year.

I'm ok with moving the 'putting circle' out to like 60-75ft. I'm ok with maintaining a point of contact behind the lie for putts but being allowed a step forward.

I feel like a lot of this is kind of unreasonable, making people change their mechanics on how they play the game. Seems like there's a lot of more reasonable ways to approach the problem instead of smothering it with a blanket.
 
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See post #80, the proposal was to remove that entire section -- so maintaining balance would no longer be required. Falling backwards into a face plant woukd be tricky, but legal.
....
pdga in post #80 said:
ST-1 Stance Stay behind your lie Major Must show balance behind lie for all throws. Fixes jump/step putt issues. Passed*** 4 / 3
 
McBeth wouldn't be foot faulting because these are all tee shots...

Summary:

Make all throws putts, essentially. For any throw other than from a tee, players would not be allowed to go beyond
their lie after release.
Rule change says "all throws" and doesn't discriminate "tee throws". McBeth would be foot faulting on that tee throw stepping over the line, and actually Will's foot might have pivoted over the line, hard to see with his other foot blocking the view.
 
Ahh... I now see your attachment in #80. The summary you posted is not included in the rules change on #81.

However as the rule is actually written, I am literally correct, unless "tee throws" were specifically added in the rule or in a Q&A.
 
Rule change says "all throws" and doesn't discriminate "tee throws". McBeth would be foot faulting on that tee throw stepping over the line, and actually Will's foot might have pivoted over the line, hard to see with his other foot blocking the view.

Ahh... I now see your attachment in #80. The summary you posted is not included in the rules change on #81.

However as the rule is actually written, I am literally correct, unless "tee throws" were specifically added in the rule or in a Q&A.

It says "other than tee throws" specifically... In the proposed revision working document, as quoted and bolded by you. ;)
 
It says "other than tee throws" specifically... In the proposed revision working document, as quoted and bolded by you. ;)
I didn't bold anything.

Below is how the rule is actually written. There is no "other than tee throws"...
pdga said:
ST-1 Stance Stay behind your lie Major Must show balance behind lie for all throws. Fixes jump/step putt issues. Passed*** 4 / 3
 
I didn't bold anything.

Below is how the rule is actually written. There is no "other than tee throws"...

That's the current wording! :doh:

I'm referring to the new rule proposal in the working doc as shown in post #80 attachments. Sorry if I haven't conveyed that, I was trying to anyway.


CURRENT

800.02

Putt: Any throw from 10 meters or less as measured from the rear of the marker disc to the base of the target.

800.03

10 meters
 
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Missed the edit window, here is the document -- notice the current & proposed wording -- 802.04.D is removed completely in the proposal. And yes it's the SUMMARY section I was referring to, sorry for confusing the issue. Seriously just shoot me now!



CURRENT

800.02

Putt: Any throw from 10 meters or less as measured from the rear of the marker disc to the base of the target.

800.03

10 meters 23 feet 10 inches

802.04.C

Supporting point contact with or beyond the marker disc is permitted after the disc is released, except when putting.

802.04 D

Putting: Any throw from within 10 meters of the target, as measured from the rear of the marker disc to the base
of the target, is a putt. Supporting point contact closer to the target than the rear edge of the marker disc
after the disc has been released is a stance violation. The player must demonstrate full control of balance before
advancing toward the target.

PROPOSED

800.02

[ remove definition of "Putt" ]

800.03

[ remove 10 meter conversion ]

802.04.C

Supporting point contact with or beyond the marker disc after the disc has been released is not permitted.

802.04.D

[ remove, and move E-F up ]

-------------------

Summary:

Make all throws putts, essentially. For any throw other than from a tee, players would not be allowed to go beyond
their lie after release.

Pro:

- Difficult judgment calls on whether a player was in the air on release (jump putts) would no longer need to be
made.
- Difficult judgment calls on whether a player's forward foot touched before release (step putts) would no longer
need to be made.
- Players would no longer need to ask "In the circle?" throughout the round.
- There would be no need for TDs to paint ten-meter circles around each basket.

Con:

- Jump and step putts would no longer be allowed.
- Some players may need to gear down for full-power fairway throws so that they do not go past their lie after
release.
 
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Things like "Wait, does that include Tee shots?" come up later in the process.

Yes you can tell these were essentially brainstorming documents, clearly not ready for prime time. I think they should leak this kind of stuff every year, it provides them some very colorful feedback.
 
You know, I've come full circle on this. One of my biggest complaints about watching basketball is all the running and jumping they do when they shoot. "Just shoot a set shot!" I yell at the TV. "Quit being coordinated and scoring in athletic, dynamic ways" I shout. It just really cheapens the game.
 
For that matter, speed golf with running would be much more interesting, action packed and require much less time for rounds plus adding a demolition derby element where helmets, goggles and pads might be required. Disc Golf Guy would really get in shape to cover that.
 
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