PDGA gripes

[JC17393]

Also, can we stop saying that the "delay" of this guy's online membership status is because of the PDGA being short-staffed? Regardless of how big their staff is, they have a procedure in place for updating their database online. It's part of quality control to have a procedure rather than just let whoever update whatever whenever.

Also, this guy renewed on a Friday afternoon, and was calling to "complain" on Monday morning of a holiday weekend (lucky the office was open to take his call, IMO). Regardless of the size of the staff, the fact that it didn't happen instantaneously on Friday should have told him all he needed to know about the automation of the process, or lack thereof. Expecting something that clearly isn't automated to be done over the weekend when offices are closed seems a bit of an out of whack expectation on all levels.

 

[dorseymatt]

It's not odd at all. They're very likely two completely different systems. To link the two would require them to hire a programmer to build some custom software and that is not cheap.

You're not asked to bear with them. You have the option to not be a member. If you don't think the service they provide is worth the membership fee, don't pay it.

I probably will still pay it, but won't be a bit surprised if 90% of others don't, I guess--especially if they are in different financial situations than me.

 

[dorseymatt]

Also, can we stop saying that the "delay" of this guy's online membership status is because of the PDGA being short-staffed? Regardless of how big their staff is, they have a procedure in place for updating their database online. It's part of quality control to have a procedure rather than just let whoever update whatever whenever.

Also, this guy renewed on a Friday afternoon, and was calling to "complain" on Monday morning of a holiday weekend (lucky the office was open to take his call, IMO). Regardless of the size of the staff, the fact that it didn't happen instantaneously on Friday should have told him all he needed to know about the automation of the process, or lack thereof. Expecting something that clearly isn't automated to be done over the weekend when offices are closed seems a bit of an out of whack expectation on all levels.

I agree with you on this. I guess the way you could frame it as a staffing issue is that the thing wasn't programmed to be automated to begin with. That this would become an issue (for someone) isn't all that surprising.

 

[prerube]

Also, can we stop saying that the "delay" of this guy's online membership status is because of the PDGA being short-staffed? Regardless of how big their staff is, they have a procedure in place for updating their database online. It's part of quality control to have a procedure rather than just let whoever update whatever whenever.

Also, this guy renewed on a Friday afternoon, and was calling to "complain" on Monday morning of a holiday weekend (lucky the office was open to take his call, IMO). Regardless of the size of the staff, the fact that it didn't happen instantaneously on Friday should have told him all he needed to know about the automation of the process, or lack thereof. Expecting something that clearly isn't automated to be done over the weekend when offices are closed seems a bit of an out of whack expectation on all levels.

The staff size is important. it could take a week to process tourney results, membership applications, ect. But the fact that it was a holiday weekend is an excellent point as well.
I just renewed my membership 30 secconds ago and we will see how long things take.

OH NO, 5 minutes and it still says I am not current

 

[tbird888]

Isn't it a little odd that they have a system that can auto-generate an email but not auto-change membership status?

Generating an email when someone clicks a button and making changes to a database (more than likely just one field) are two very different things. As a developer, I deal with this attitude daily in my job.

Are you a developer?

 

[munky]

I'm STILL waiting on my renewal package from 2012. And I renewed for it in the spring of 2011. I have several emails from various people at the PDGA saying I will be taken care of. Even Brian Graham is looking into this for me and I still haven't received it. So yeah, the PDGA has some problems.

 

[bradharris]

I'm STILL waiting on my renewal package from 2012. And I renewed for it in the spring of 2011. I have several emails from various people at the PDGA saying I will be taken care of. Even Brian Graham is looking into this for me and I still haven't received it. So yeah, the PDGA has some problems.

This is a much more valid gripe.

 

[dorseymatt]

Generating an email when someone clicks a button and making changes to a database (more than likely just one field) are two very different things. As a developer, I deal with this attitude daily in my job.

Are you a developer?

My apologies. I did not mean to equate the ease, programming-wise, of doing one with the other. Nevertheless, these changes appear common in other services. They are the expectation from customers. Any system that does not do an instant update like the one we're discussing appears antiquated, doesn't it?

At the very least, wouldn't hiring a programmer for this job save money in the long run? Having someone manually enter data to a database over a long period of time would surely cost more money, wouldn't it?

 

[bradharris]

My apologies. I did not mean to equate the ease, programming-wise, of doing one with the other. Nevertheless, these changes appear common in other services. They are the expectation from customers. Any system that does not do an instant update like the one we're discussing appears antiquated, doesn't it?

I'm actually have difficulty thinking of a service to compare this to. It's not the same as a website subscription where you pay and immediately get a login. It's a simple online listing that shows your personal data.

At the very least, wouldn't hiring a programmer for this job save money in the long run? Having someone manually enter data to a database over a long period of time would surely cost more money, wouldn't it?

Probably not. Whenever you automate something like this, exceptions will occur that "break" the system. You then have to hire someone to go in and fix the problems. These fixes are far more costly than just having someone manually update the data in weekly batches.

 

[dorseymatt]

I'm actually have difficulty thinking of a service to compare this to. It's not the same as a website subscription where you pay and immediately get a login. It's a simple online listing that shows your personal data.

Probably not. Whenever you automate something like this, exceptions will occur that "break" the system. You then have to hire someone to go in and fix the problems. These fixes are far more costly than just having someone manually update the data in weekly batches.

Fair enough--I stand corrected. But to me, the layman who knows little of these things other than what I want to be the case, what I want my experience to be as a customer, I see little difference between the PDGA thing and getting a login for a website.

As a programmer -- is this truly so ridiculous a thing (cost-wise, all things considered, etc) for a company to provide for its customers? It seems like it wouldn't be, but can only very wealthy, very profitable companies provide services like this?

 

[tbird888]

If you look earlier in the thread, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that I was surprised this wasn't changed when they updated the website recently. It is antiquated but hiring a dev to do the work isn't cheap. It also probably wouldn't eliminate more than an hour or two a week (probably) from someone's job so it would take a long time to recoup that cost.

I really didn't mean to attack you on this matter. I just face this stuff in my work everywhere I go. "Why can't you do this?" "I can, but I can't just click a button and make it happen." To be honest, the load time of the site is so slow as it is, and it was just rebuilt not too long ago. That could be fixed by finding a better host, but it could also be the code. I'm sure there isn't a lot of money in the budget for development time so I wouldn't expect anything online from the PDGA to be cutting edge.

I would rather them spend their time refining rules and making tourney play better than adding bells and whistles to their site. If that means I have to wait to see my PDGA number go from "unpaid" to "here's your stats", then so be it.

 

[dorseymatt]

If you look earlier in the thread, I'm pretty sure I mentioned that I was surprised this wasn't changed when they updated the website recently. It is antiquated but hiring a dev to do the work isn't cheap. It also probably wouldn't eliminate more than an hour or two a week (probably) from someone's job so it would take a long time to recoup that cost.

I really didn't mean to attack you on this matter. I just face this stuff in my work everywhere I go. "Why can't you do this?" "I can, but I can't just click a button and make it happen." To be honest, the load time of the site is so slow as it is, and it was just rebuilt not too long ago. That could be fixed by finding a better host, but it could also be the code. I'm sure there isn't a lot of money in the budget for development time so I wouldn't expect anything online from the PDGA to be cutting edge.

I would rather them spend their time refining rules and making tourney play better than adding bells and whistles to their site. If that means I have to wait to see my PDGA number go from "unpaid" to "here's your stats", then so be it.

I see. Thanks for the response!

I guess we just have to keep low expectations to avoid frustration in this case.

 

[blackandwhite]

people post asking about a disc being more stable than they thought and to see if others have had the issue. Posting this was something of the same.

For a professionally sanctioned group, I thought things would have gone differently. Aside from an automatic display of past results, surely posting something on the checkout/purchase page can't be extremely costly to inform its buyers/customers

I see. Thanks for the response!

I guess we just have to keep low expectations to avoid frustration in this case.

this would be something I will have to keep in mind from now on in this sport. Quick to take, 'slow' to return

 

[tbird888]

If you build that functionality from the start, it isn't bad. I would consider this a pretty complex feature. It might not take a long time to build (planning would be 90% of the time spent), but it is a fair amount of code. Given dev salaries (especially since they would use contractors instead of having a full-time IT person), it would be pretty costly.

Since the website has been around for a long time (yes it was redesigned, but I'm guessing not from scratch), it's more than likely not as well-built as what you would have today (tech's come A LONG way in the last five years, more than the previous ten I would argue).

 

[nohr]

Weighting is the hardest part. Mole hill made into a mountain.

 

[tbird888]

people post asking about a disc being more stable than they thought and to see if others have had the issue. Posting this was something of the same.

You say this (I was just wondering)

this would be something I will have to keep in mind from now on in this sport. Quick to take, 'slow' to return

Then you retort with this (gimme gimme gimme). Do you want more refined rules and better tourney play, or do you want bells and whistles on a website that doesn't see a lot of traffic?

You try to make the case that you're curious but then lash out with a snide comment. Take a side.

 

[dorseymatt]

If you build that functionality from the start, it isn't bad. I would consider this a pretty complex feature. It might not take a long time to build (planning would be 90% of the time spent), but it is a fair amount of code. Given dev salaries (especially since they would use contractors instead of having a full-time IT person), it would be pretty costly.

Since the website has been around for a long time (yes it was redesigned, but I'm guessing not from scratch), it's more than likely not as well-built as what you would have today (tech's come A LONG way in the last five years, more than the previous ten I would argue).

I hear you. I wonder how concerned the PDGA is about this. Won't things only get worse for the website as technology continues to progress, considering they continue to build on old, inefficient code?

 

[dorseymatt]

this would be something I will have to keep in mind from now on in this sport. Quick to take, 'slow' to return

I hate to jump on you, since that's happened repeatedly in this thread, but come on. If this affects your enjoyment of the sport, then that's pretty crazy. I can understand it affecting the amount you enjoy being a member of the PDGA, but the sport exists at the courses, and any enjoyment you derive from the sport starts there. Perspective!

 

[scarpfish]

The PDGA's competition is the non-membership of avid disc golfers.

Not really. I doubt the vast majority of those folks would suddenly sign up if the PDGA fixed whatever folks thought was wrong with it. The great majority of players just aren't able to give competitive play enough commitment to justify a membership. That's the number one reason most non-current members let their memberships lapse.

 

[elnino]

The new IT guy is great. i think he is some super smart guy that is setting up stuff to work super fast and automatic pay/renew and instant access. i just think it hasn't gotten there yet.

In a few years i'm sure you pay online and u have access/updates.

really not sure why it hasn't happened yet but i think it might soon.