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Pdga has finally announced new rules on transgender competition

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oddjob

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https://www.pdga.com/announcements/...dga-policy-eligibility-gender-based-divisions

A survey of PDGA members 18 years of age and older was conducted on October 5, 2022. The survey was reviewed by a university Institutional Review Board (IRB) to ensure adequate provisions to protect the privacy of participants and to maintain confidentiality of the data. A total of 35,901 PDGA members completed the survey, which represents a 32% response rate which exceeded expectations. 97% of respondents who started the survey completed it. The initial results of the survey indicate that competition level was likely a significant variable, although analyses are ongoing by university researchers.

In response to the statement "Transgender women should be allowed to compete with other women after gender affirming (hormone) treatment", the following groups of PDGA members strongly disagreed or disagreed:

62% of all members
55% of amateur women
63% of professional women
75% of DGPT women
In response to the statement "Transgender women should be allowed to compete with other women in disc golf and in other sports", the following groups of PDGA members strongly disagreed or disagreed:

67% of all members
55% of amateur women
68% of professional women
80% of DGPT women
 
I'd give it about 20 posts you want in on that action hampy?

I'll take the over

hand-sanitizer-anti-bacterial.gif
 
Immediately cancelled my DGPT subscription. The decision almost certainly has support of the current disc golf consumer base, so I hope the tour finds another way to fail miserably. I will be cheering for that result. Do I expect it? Probably not. But will be cheering for it.
 
Seems like the PDGA may need to add MA5 (800>), MA6 (750>) and even MA7 (700>) divisions to meet their stated goal of inclusiveness and also competitive fairness. Otherwise, what "fair" division do transgender women (and also men below 800 rating) enter who don't or haven't yet met the PDGA criteria for certain F divisions?

It's not yet clear how a new player presenting as female at their first and subsequent PDGA events will be discovered by TDs as transgender (if they don't self-declare) to where they need to submit proof they qualify for F division(s) they are entering.
 
Immediately cancelled my DGPT subscription. The decision almost certainly has support of the current disc golf consumer base, so I hope the tour finds another way to fail miserably. I will be cheering for that result. Do I expect it? Probably not. But will be cheering for it.

The new protocol explicitly excludes the DGPT, who are free to develop more inclusive guidelines.

Although based on the survey of pro women, perhaps they would better serve their player base if they adopted more exclusive guidelines.
 
PDGA adopts a policy that is more inclusive than the LPGA; as disc golfers competing in all non-pro major events will not be required to undergo the invasive surgery of a gonadectomy.
 
Technically they are taking the most stringent and exclusive restriction of the PDGA policy, C.3 (which PDGA only applies to pro majors) and applying it to all DGPT events.
Thing is, DGPT doesn't run any amateur or lower tier events if you consider Silver Series is slightly above A-tier.
 
FPO field after Natalie wins event: "we are so proud of you, congratulations, this is huge!"

The apparent majority of touring FPO field (and the rest of the pdga membership… sad) behind a keyboard: "oh yeah, not proud of you, you don't deserve to do what you love [as a profession] as the person you are. Good luck in life. Not."

So if she doesn't get the win this year, we don't make it to now, right?
 
Who are the bigots?

I can explain the concept, but I cannot make people understand.

a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group:
 
It never ceases to make me cringe, the harm that is done in the supposed name of fairness.

PDGA said:
Section 8.1 of this framework encouraged organizations to meaningfully consult with a cross-section of athletes who may be negatively affected, which is what drove the decision to conduct a survey of the membership.

As per usual, the negative effects on the trans players aren't even an afterthought. Screw the 12 of us in the PDGA, because we might take away some money that some cis woman could've lost to another cis woman that day. Having allowed 29,844 cisgender men have the loudest, and largest say in this shows the PDGA wasn't giving one whit of concern to fairness. Their system knows what gender players are registered as - they had every opportunity to only provide the survey to those who may be negatively effected (ie- women), and make the decision based on those who actually have skin in the game. Instead, only 8% of respondents were women - making the "all respondents", "all pros", "all DGPT", and "just amateurs" polluted cesspools of useless data, serving no purpose but to make it seem like there was that much more support for a ban - but data that the board of people who don't do professional data analysis no doubt gave undue weight, regardless of the opinions of the 2796 women surveyed being in-line with the same results (more on this below).

PDGA said:
The PDGA Global Board of Directors cares deeply about the culture and history of the sport of disc golf. From the beginning, disc golf has strived to be an inclusive sport that welcomes people from all walks of life.

Pull the other leg. I don't want to walk crooked. That statement is completely at odds with the 70% or more of the survey respondents self-reporting as being conservative to some degree, especially when one of their most prominent TDs and board members is an outspoken opponent of the LGBTQIA+ community.


Now, about that "more on this below", up above.

This survey was done badly. Flat out. I won't mince words about it. Everyone who took it was baffled as to how badly the questions were designed, but it goes even deeper than that.

You're asking for opinions from uninformed people, about a very complex subject that even the PDGA chose bad studies for. You cannot survey useful answers from people who don't understand the subject matter, if you want to have any premise of concern for "fairness" in the outcome. You will get 100% emotional reactions, and not one single respondent doing any research, because they're answering based on what their gut (or whatever talking head they hear about this subject from) tells them - and there is a lot of misinformation going around, when it comes to trans women in sports.

The Hilton and Lundberg study is an incredibly poor meta-analysis of other science, that focuses solely on numbers, and dives no deeper into understanding them. My favorite cringe whenever someone links it is limb length. Indulge me a brief dive into the data that illustrates the overall lack of care taken by Hilton or Lundberg:

Most of these numbers are easily found on Google, which sources them from census data, and other various publications that do statistical analysis of things like sex and height.

For my estimate on the number of trans women, I used this site, providing information from June 2022: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/

The current US population is 331.9 million.
50.5% of the US population are cisgender women.
That means there are 167.6 million cisgender women in the US.
1% of those cisgender women are over 6 feet tall.
That means 1.68 million cisgender women in the US are over 6 feet tall.
There are an estimated 1.3 million transgender people in the US.
38.5% of transgender people report as being trans women.
That means there are an estimated 515,200 transgender women in the US.
That means there are over three times as many cis women over 6 feet all, than there are trans women in total.
14.5% of men in the US are over 6 feet tall.
Given their sex at birth, and being very charitable towards those on the other side of this argument from me by assuming they all received zero growth stunting from hormone replacement therapy (a physical impossibility, but again, play along even though it goes against my side on this), this means there are 74,704 trans women in the US over 6 feet tall (I'm one of them!).
25% of adults in the US play sports.
This means that out of that 1.68 million women in the US over 6 feet tall, 419,000 are athletes (over 81% of the total population of trans women in the US).
This means there are a mere 18,676 trans women in the US over 6 feet tall, who are athletes.

The Hilton and Lundberg study speaks of the differences between trans women and cis women from the perspective of an insurmountable physical advantage, and includes limb length - which has a direct correlation with overall height, as one of the contributing indicators of an advantage.

If even 4.5% of the cisgender women in the US who are over 6 feet tall compete in sports, there are more cisgender women athletes over 6 feet tall than there are trans women over 6 feet tall, athletic or not - and this is another statistic where the numbers alone don't tell the whole story. Consider that a cis girl over 6 feet tall is going to be pushed very hard towards playing a sport (especially volleyball and basketball), and that comparatively it is likely exceedingly rare that a trans girl is athletic (My sample size is only around 150 or so between myself, the trans community I know well enough to know whether they're into sports, and the few trans women in disc golf that I know of, but in my experience the percentage of trans girls/women who are competitive athletes is more like 10% - "competitive", versus those who just exercise to attain or maintain a certain weight or body shape for transition purposes).

That one study seems to have been the sole data set used by the PDGA in making their decision (it is the only one quoted, and they provided zero citations), and it is only one of dozens that cover this topic, of varying quality - many of which suffer the same problem that Hilton and Lundberg did. When you analyze these things solely as numbers (which happens all too often in transgender research, because no one funds it, so everyone has to analyze other people's science - so there's never a point at which they see the people behind the numbers), it is very easy to forget that the numbers represent people, and that each of them has a story behind it. Life doesn't happen in a vacuum, and culture, opportunity, and societal bias have a huge impact on things like participation and success in sports. When scientists make a blunder as big as just that one I went into detail about above with limb length, it makes it very likely the conclusions they make from those numbers were reached with just as little care as their analyses. You cannot just take one study, and declare it "enough" to codify discrimination against an entire population. Doubly so, if you're speaking out the other side of your mouth about your desire for inclusivity.

Now, before anyone jumps at me about leaving out useful information myself: Limb length does determine how much lean body mass (ie- muscle) a given person has (because longer limbs mean more muscle tissue running along their length, and needed to support its weight) - and post-puberty, pre-transition, a trans woman does have more dense, fast-twitch focused muscles than a cis woman. However, post-transition the composition of muscle fibers in a trans women show more slow-twitch fibers than fast-twitch - they become, in essence, the same sort of muscles that cis women have, except they also have fewer capillaries feeding them blood and oxygen. That means they aren't as efficient as a cis woman. A few years after transition (for me it was between 2 and 3, but I doubt there's a set value you could standardize on), a trans woman's muscle composition has changed enough that if you were to compare her power to that of a cis woman with the same height and amount of lean body mass, they would essentially be equals. There is nothing preventing cis women from doing the strength training necessary to get any muscle mass I have that they lack, and they would be on even footing for fast twitch muscle use like a disc golf drive at that point.

It would all come down to the two things that disc golf needs more than anything, to be successful - skill, and technique.
 
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