PDGA membership extension

[Improbably]

You know what'd be great?

If I didn't have to pay more than the amateur members. Playing in the Open Division - what benefits do the PDGA provide me over the Amateurs that warrant them charging me more?

Let me tell you why I am vehemently anti-pdga as answer.

The pdga perpetuates a system which extracts value from the AM side of the game and transfers it to the PRO side.

One is simply paying a premium NOT to be a mark. If one is good enough at disc golf one may even get a share of the value extracted from the AMs.

 

[Casey 1988]

If no one complains, there will never be any changes.

But they need to say these things to the right people.

 

[Casey 1988]

Now this is a take I agree with. They're providing the exact same service to you pros as they are amateurs. I think the $50 cost is fair, but $75 for pros is garbage. I have no problem with juniors paying less because I'd rather not have a high cost of entry for them. Actually I'd even argue that juniors need to be even cheaper (maybe $10?). Junior members shouldn't be a revenue stream, but a draw to get them to continue their membership as adults.

I am on the same page with the PDGA having the cost for Pros so high at $75, only a lucky few in top 100 or maybe a bit more with some places like Dynamic Disc paying for all of its Pro players to get the PDGA membership paid for by a sponsor. Only Know from Rec Rob a low level Dynamic Disc Pro on YouTube who said he gets his PDGA membership payed for by Dynamic Disc right now when going into what his sponsorship was getting him.

 

[Billipo]

As an Amateur can I join the PGA, LPGA, PBA, or any other professional sport organization?

Does including Amateurs with Pros make the organization seem ....hum....Amateur?

 

[DavidSauls]

As an Amateur can I join the PGA, LPGA, PBA, or any other professional sport organization?

Does including Amateurs with Pros make the organization seem ....hum....Amateur?

What's in a name?

Read it as the Professional Organization of Disc Golf, and not as the Organization of Professional Disc Golfers. It's the association that's professional, not the players.

There's not that much difference between our Pros and Ams -- only a handful of our Pros are earning a living at disc golf, and our Ams are receiving stuff of value for playing. In reality, it's 2 tiers of semi-pros.

 

[DavidSauls]

do we need the pdga or does the pdga need us

You're probably trolling but I'd say both.

Both, indeed.

If we didn't have a PDGA, we'd invent one. It would look different in some ways. But we'd still have people complaining that it does too much, that it does too little, and that it does the wrong things, just as we do now.

It's a voluntary organization -- players and TDs can join it, or not, and there are many making both decisions. From the growth in sanctioned events and memberships, it appears that many need -- or, at least want -- the PDGA. And of course the organization couldn't exist without them.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Let me tell you why I am vehemently anti-pdga as answer.

The pdga perpetuates a system which extracts value from the AM side of the game and transfers it to the PRO side.

One is simply paying a premium NOT to be a mark. If one is good enough at disc golf one may even get a share of the value extracted from the AMs.

Doesn't answer anything. Please try again later.

 

[biscoe]

Let me tell you why I am vehemently anti-pdga as answer.

The pdga perpetuates a system which extracts value from the AM side of the game and transfers it to the PRO side.

One is simply paying a premium NOT to be a mark. If one is good enough at disc golf one may even get a share of the value extracted from the AMs.

Ams are treated way better by the PDGA than the current red-headed stepchildren of disc golf- local pros. Some would even say that Ams in this game are spoiled to a ridiculous extent in comparison to pretty much every other sport on earth.

 

[DiscFifty]

If you dive into the history of the PDGA, imop...it would seem they have greatly under managed the sport. The fact that in 2019-2020 we witnessed an organization that took decades to come out with public positions/policies that promote racial diversity is simply insane.

I have no idea why the PDGA continues to try to be everything to both am/pro players. That means at best, 50% of it's resources are focused on the part you're vested in. It's obvious a huge majority of am members want nothing to do with the pro side of disc golf. The PDGA should just focus on continuing to build the amateur side of the sport (which they are doing fine) and let another entity take over the pro side of the sport.

I doubt any pro disc golfer would be upset to learn the PDGA handed over all operations of pro disc golf to the DGPT and I bet every single am player would be thrilled to learn that 100% of their membership money (and PDGA resources) are now going directly to further develop the am side of the sport.

 

[Casey 1988]

As an Amateur can I join the PGA, LPGA, PBA, or any other professional sport organization?

Does including Amateurs with Pros make the organization seem ....hum....Amateur?

Not Really, Road and Trail Running events have the Pro's running the same route as everyone else though in some road races namely 10 mile on up if a better run race, they have the Pro runners start a bit before the others with Female first. Now that is different from the PDGA where the event might have a different Layout/further back pads for Pro men as opposed to top Am 1 division that might be playing on the Pro Women's layout at some events.

 

[ToddL]

Are you a member, or a customer?

The ACLU didn't even sue anyone in my city! I should cancel my membership!

 

[txmxer]

Both, indeed.

If we didn't have a PDGA, we'd invent one. It would look different in some ways. But we'd still have people complaining that it does too much, that it does too little, and that it does the wrong things, just as we do now.

It's a voluntary organization -- players and TDs can join it, or not, and there are many making both decisions. From the growth in sanctioned events and memberships, it appears that many need -- or, at least want -- the PDGA. And of course the organization couldn't exist without them.

In sports, one can't even put together a City League without some kind of organizing body.

If not for the PDGA, discgolftom would be running things!

(somewhat joking--no offense to DGT).

OH...I'm not a PDGA member (yet), never played a tournament, but am planning on joining the PDGA and getting my handful of tournaments in this year.

 

[joshmo65]

They do a dreadful job of making rules for this sport in my opinion. For example how can someone who wins $10,000 in merchandise still be considered an amateur?

College athletes get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in scholarships and are considered amateurs...

 

[ChrisWoj]

Ams are treated way better by the PDGA than the current red-headed stepchildren of disc golf- local pros. Some would even say that Ams in this game are spoiled to a ridiculous extent in comparison to pretty much every other sport on earth.

Tell you what - the PDGA has always treated amateurs a whole hell of a lot better in terms of guaranteed returns than pool. I've played in three amateur pool associations. Two national level (NAPA and APA) and one regional (CRAPS). In none of those leagues was I guaranteed ANYTHING aside from a spot in a competition by my league fees. Disc golf amateurs are outright spoiled by the PDGA.

I have no idea why the PDGA continues to try to be everything to both am/pro players. That means at best, 50% of it's resources are focused on the part you're vested in. It's obvious a huge majority of am members want nothing to do with the pro side of disc golf. The PDGA should just focus on continuing to build the amateur side of the sport (which they are doing fine) and let another entity take over the pro side of the sport.

I doubt any pro disc golfer would be upset to learn the PDGA handed over all operations of pro disc golf to the DGPT and I bet every single am player would be thrilled to learn that 100% of their membership money (and PDGA resources) are now going directly to further develop the am side of the sport.

This depends entirely on how you define "Pro." If I'm defined as a "Pro" (127 events in 12 years, averaging $66.50 in prize money per event) - I would see that move as either a neutral or net negative for me. I know that the PDGA doesn't do much for me - but I can't see the DGPT doing more for me than the PDGA, and could see ways they would do less. The PDGA at least maintains some focal points away from the Tour. The DGPT would be, by its founding agenda, more focused on pulling resources to the tour and little else. If I am forced to transition to association with the DGPT I would not be in favor of the move.

If I'm defined as simply an "Open Division" golfer, a PDGA participant who competes in a division that allows players of all ratings (including, of course, pros coming off tour to compete or at least pros who haven't achieved to a certain prize level in recent years) - then I wouldn't mind the move. It would at worst be a net neutral move for me, and at best the removal of a focus on the tour would give it a chance to invest resources in the neglected Open Division golfers. So I would, assuming I remain with an avenue to be associated with the PDGA, be in favor of the move.


Note regarding amateur v professional:
I get that I am, by some of the minor definitions, competing for resource "gain" in my division and therefore "professional" - but by most definitions and the more primary definitions of the word "professional" I am not competing for a "livelihood." I am not making a living as a professional. I am, in fact, engaging it primarily as a "pastime." In reality I am an amateur competing for prizes. My pursuit is independent of my source of income, I am not competing for livelihood. There are competing dictionary definitions of amateur - but by legal definition an amateur athlete can be either restricted or unrestricted in nature. I would be an unrestricted amateur athlete as an Open Division disc golfer.

 

[BryanC]

I think the PDGA does a great job. No matter what they do, there are always going to be some people who disagree with it. As an amateur that usually is not "in the money" in tournaments, I still feel that the experience and tournament swag is worth the cost of entry (mainly the experience). I will happily pay $50 a year to help keep the organization going.

 

[azplaya25]

I think the PDGA does a great job. No matter what they do, there are always going to be some people who disagree with it. As an amateur that usually is not "in the money" in tournaments, I still feel that the experience and tournament swag is worth the cost of entry (mainly the experience). I will happily pay $50 a year to help keep the organization going.

People complaining about the PDGA is annoying - people who complain about local courses but haven't invested a moment of their time or a dime of their money into the course are equally annoying. It blows my mind how much entertainment value disc golf offers for pennies on the dollar compared to most hobbies out there

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

I didn't use any of the "perks" of my membership in 2020 and likely won't in 2021 (maybe play rated league rounds?) but I'll renew because I support the work the PDGA does.

I have much greater issues with disc golfers demonstrating bad pandemic behaviors. The PDGA isn't keeping me from playing in tournaments; these people are.

 

[Improbably]

Doesn't answer anything. Please try again later.

PROs pay a $25 premium NOT to get "margin-ed" and to get minimum added cash in B-tiers and above. The PRO fields get at least 85% of the PRO Fields' "Net Entries" back. Individual results may vary based on one's performance within a particular PRO field.

TDs/clubs are not profiting/fundraising from PRO field entries and many times the added cash is funded by the AM side margin.

 

[Improbably]

Ams are treated way better by the PDGA than the current red-headed stepchildren of disc golf- local pros.

How so? PROs get at least 85% of their "Net Entries" back. Depending on the event added cash too; many times funded by the AM margin. The local pros who can't ever seem to finish above the cash line are causing their own problems. If they don't want to be a donator they might consider playing their rating which may not even be above the INT ceiling.

I'm sure an example could be found where the AM side was treated better than the PRO side at a specific event, but generally speaking the concept is laughable.

Some would even say that Ams in this game are spoiled to a ridiculous extent in comparison to pretty much every other sport on earth.

Comparing AMs to AMs between sports is a topic distinct from comparing AMs to PROs within a sport.

 

[Puckstopper]

I assume you are one of the folks who counts the value of their PDGA membership in $10 non-member fees paid/not paid and nothing else. Don't like it? Don't pay it. The choice is yours.

That's literally the ONLY value for a lot of people. After all the "growth" this year I'm definitely in favor of going back to niche status...