Pro Tour: Live Streaming vs Edited YouTube Coverage

[Aim For The Chains]

I really appreciate what is going on here, because I really enjoy watching live. I really have no reason to watch edited coverage if I know the score. I'll just look up the 15 second video of Ricky making the hugh putt for the win (spoiler alert)

Just because we're currently a smaller sport growing to a larger one doesn't mean we shouldn't do this. We should not pay for ESPN time, we should use the awesome internet tools to slowly do it right, targeted to the masses that want it.

I know I won't get real numbers, and I trust that you truly are being diligent with the budget. Still though, I expect you'll have 2 camera coverage? Seems to be the standard, basket camera and tee box camera moving along with the lead card.

In business the base costs usually are the highest and incremental costs much lower.
You pay for the Data, Commentators, Crews, and 2 Camera/Mic guys, etc. Is it a huge added cost going to 3 Cameras?
In my mind, with fake numbers - The whole set up, all in for live coverage is $100/hr for 1 camera, $105/hr 2 cameras, $109/hr 3 cameras...
Just give me the multiplying factor and I'll do the math.

Um... Cameras dont run themselves and more cams means more production needed. Your numbers are way off for any production/service etc when human labor is a factor plus adding to needed data, batteries and so on...

 

[JedV]

I prefer edited. Unless you have cameras on several holes.

Thanks for admitting that you have to take steps to get there unlike Dr K.

 

[Jenga54]

Um... Cameras dont run themselves and more cams means more production needed. Your numbers are way off for any production/service etc when human labor is a factor plus adding to needed data, batteries and so on...

Why I said Fake numbers. Does it add 5 percent to add a 3rd camera? Once you have a guy deciding to go Cam1-Cam2, what's the extra to go to Cam3 every once and a while?
Once everything else is in place, I would think 3rd Cam would be a much smaller next hurdle to jump.

 

[DanJon]

I think an ideal live production, to draw in viewers and advertisers alike, would be with 3 cameras on the course; two on the lead card and one on the chase.

That along with edited footage to cut to, on-screen graphics, player interviews, in the bag clips, commercials, broadcast booth commentary, etc.

But that kind of stuff would cost a lot of money and isn't sustainable right now.

 

[slowplastic]

Unlike other forums of different topics where so many people seem to not even do the hobby anymore, this place dies down on the weekend. People here actually take part in the game.

How many people that hardcore about disc golf are going to give up 4 hours to watch a round on the weekend afternoon vs. go out and play? Compare that to getting 95% of the same info on an edited Youtube video in 30-60 minutes, only an evening or two after, and when they can't be out playing?

Other pro sports happen in the evening when it makes sense for people to watch. Disc golf doesn't.

I mean it would be cool if/when live coverage gets better, but I don't think I would ever see myself sitting inside for that many hours to watch it on the weekend when I could go do something else.

It just seems like WAY more effort/prep and people to be involved to do it right vs. edited videos, and less people watch them.

 

[jvphobic]

I really appreciate what is going on here, because I really enjoy watching live. I really have no reason to watch edited coverage if I know the score. I'll just look up the 15 second video of Ricky making the hugh putt for the win (spoiler alert)

Just because we're currently a smaller sport growing to a larger one doesn't mean we shouldn't do this. We should not pay for ESPN time, we should use the awesome internet tools to slowly do it right, targeted to the masses that want it.

I know I won't get real numbers, and I trust that you truly are being diligent with the budget. Still though, I expect you'll have 2 camera coverage? Seems to be the standard, basket camera and tee box camera moving along with the lead card.

In business the base costs usually are the highest and incremental costs much lower.
You pay for the Data, Commentators, Crews, and 2 Camera/Mic guys, etc. Is it a huge added cost going to 3 Cameras?
In my mind, with fake numbers - The whole set up, all in for live coverage is $100/hr for 1 camera, $105/hr 2 cameras, $109/hr 3 cameras...
Just give me the multiplying factor and I'll do the math.

The numbers... The data is expensive, but not backbreaking. Add into that someone's travel, lodging, & pay who runs the camera. Do we want a commentator on that 2nd card? If so, add ANOTHER body to the mix. We have been VERY fortunate that our good friend Gary O has been more or less being our camera man at a dirt rate price. But, that won't last. We can't keep asking him to work for almost nothing, he has a full time job. Next year we promised to pay him a real salary.
On the switching side, it is very easy to add an additional camera into my mix. Just another input honestly that I need to keep an eye on.

Wanna talk equipment? Camera: $2500 (about), 4G Streamer: $4500, Batteries: $500, Accessories: $500 (bags, filters, SD cards, etc).

I am NOT complaining (my wife would if she knew what I have actually put into SmashBoxx). I am just throwing out some numbers.

 

[jvphobic]

And what SUCKS about data... having to sign up for a plan. Good luck telling someone you need 8 data lines (2 per camera) and that you only want them for about 6 months a year. We still pay on all those plans while we are not broadcasting. We can move them down to minimal accounts, but they don't go away.

 

[DiscFifty]

I agree 4+ hour live coverage is too long. Give me 2 hours of the last 9 holes (and 2 cards) and I'm there watching live.

 

[mizunodave]

My preference is edited over live for the time commitment. Don't see that changing.

All of us who enjoy watching coverage should be supportive of you guys finding a way to get the coverage to pay for itself (including all involved making a living.)

Live would be better financially because longer run time means more space for ad spots, right?

For the shorter edited versions you can't run two minutes of commercials at any point because people will skip them and the sponsors know it.

A 5 second ad between each hole is an option, but kinda annoying.

What about a border ad? Bottom or side 10% of the screen is dedicated to rotating (but not moving or distracting) ads? Viewers can't skip it and sponsors can get a pretty lengthy presence, sold by the hole or by the minute.

(Remember guys, yes, ads are annoying but if you're getting something for free you have to let the providers at least cover their expenses.)

 

[youdidwell]

Sorry I kind of laughed when I read that edited youtube videos have "hundreds of thousands of fans". Am I looking at the wrong videos? I don't see many with over 100k in views. I like watching edited coverage and that's basically all I need.

As far as live coverage being the future, unless you're just saying the technology for it is more accessible I don't see it. Maybe a combination of the live and edited versions could be more easily done by these great filmers that put it together these videos now. But even with improved the production I don't the numbers changing much anytime soon. It will always be in a terrible timeslot.

 

[Jesterian]

The reason Ball Golf is able to be covered live is the fact that they don't just follow a single card. They switch around quite a bit. Until disc golf is capable of delivering that style of coverage, I think edited youtube footage is just the right way to present it.

 

[DiscLoser1]

Sorry I kind of laughed when I read that edited youtube videos have "hundreds of thousands of fans". Am I looking at the wrong videos? I don't see many with over 100k in views. I like watching edited coverage and that's basically all I need.

As far as live coverage being the future, unless you're just saying the technology for it is more accessible I don't see it. Maybe a combination of the live and edited versions could be more easily done by these great filmers that put it together these videos now. But even with improved the production I don't the numbers changing much anytime soon. It will always be in a terrible timeslot.

Gotta agree with this; how many vids have 100k views??

With all respect to Steve Dodge and the live streaming crews, you're live-casting a sport whose sanctioning body has < 100,000 members. I get there are tons of players who aren't PDGA members blah blah blah, but they're even less likely to stay home and watch a stream...

Add to that the fact that the average sports fan/amateur athlete/weekend ball golfer more or less laugh in our faces when we mention disc golf, I just don't see how any live cast is going to attract eyeballs and advertisers.

Making the DGPT events festival-like and attracting more families and otherwise clueless locals to watch in person seems like a good idea, assuming there is a local media blitz leading up to said events. Banking on live streams as the growth model seems untenable tho.

And I would have rather seen Vibram put money into youth leagues/phys ed packages/course building than into Pro DG, but all of this is just like my opinion. Good luck to everyone involved.

 

[oddjob]

wait, how did i miss this commercial?

 

[onemilemore]

My preference is edited over live for the time commitment. Don't see that changing.

All of us who enjoy watching coverage should be supportive of you guys finding a way to get the coverage to pay for itself (including all involved making a living.)

Live would be better financially because longer run time means more space for ad spots, right?

For the shorter edited versions you can't run two minutes of commercials at any point because people will skip them and the sponsors know it.

A 5 second ad between each hole is an option, but kinda annoying.

What about a border ad? Bottom or side 10% of the screen is dedicated to rotating (but not moving or distracting) ads? Viewers can't skip it and sponsors can get a pretty lengthy presence, sold by the hole or by the minute.

(Remember guys, yes, ads are annoying but if you're getting something for free you have to let the providers at least cover their expenses.)

Or sell the leader board to a sponsor, or a hole preview, or any number of things on an edited production that aren't monetized. The options are there, just needs a little more biz dev put into it.

 

[TimSyl]

Been a sports fan forever, find myself watching less and less of almost all sports. BUT, nightly routine is...wife goes to bed, I watch a 1/2 hour tourney video.

 

[StevenSeagal]

I prefer edited coverage at the moment but given time I could definitely see myself favoring live coverage. I think a considerable amount of the extra 3+ hours that comprises a live event could be used to tackle the problem of conveying depth, difficulty of the shot and distance better than what we have seen so far. I say this because I had all but written off live coverage as boring until I watches the 2016 World tour at my home course of La Mirada.

Having a sense of the actual hole, the distances, height of a particular canopy and so on made a world of difference. I was able to appreciate what I was watching on a much deeper level and I think if the coverage community could develop tools or tricks to convey some of that info to anyone that happened to watch a particular video could do a lot to improve upon the coverage of an event.

I think cleverly crafted set pieces (to borrow a phrase) for each hole, with numerous short clips specific to the expected or available lines a golfer could throw would be a welcomed addition to either an edited or live video. A guy named Andre is doing something like this with a camera mounted drone for CCDG and I think it is awesome.

So far this sort of thing is limited to replacing the course or hole map at the beginning of frame but I think it could be extended and expanded upon to cover not just the hole in its entirety but also the obstacles and lines within that hole specifically. If you were to combine that with live commentary I think you would really be on to something.

 

[chainedwraith]

I happen to agree with Steve Dodge on this. I appreciate the post-tourney edited coverage because often times its the only coverage we get, but I have a much harder time staying motivated to watch ANY sport in which I already know the outcome. Simple as that. Social media usually spoils edited coverage for me even when I try to avoid knowing the results. I also can't get emotionally invested like a true sports fan if I'm watching something after it happened.

I usually watch the edited coverage because I love our sport and for many tourneys post-live edited coverage is the only option and I totally understand that and still watch much of it. I think we have some guys out there doing some awesome work and I think they should continue to do it and continue to improve on it as they have been. It makes for great late night TV when the wife 'n kids are in bed and I can watch some footage quickly, but its nowhere near as exciting as for example, watching the Memorial live the the other year when Big Jerm beat McBeast with that clutch putt on the 18.. I was glued to the coverage, emotionally invested.. It was awesome. I recall going out and playing DG that day early just so I could get home in time to watch the coverage before it was over.

Having said all that, yes our live coverage has issues and is in infancy in many regards. I think this is slowly changing and getting better, but we still have a long way to go.

When production budgets allow, I think we should go for a 4 camera setup. 2 cameras following lead card for optimal viewing pleasure.. One camera following chase card just to keep tabs on the action and one camera parked on a really nice hole so that in between downtime on the top cards folks could be watching other cards play one of the nicer holes, even if they are not top cards.

In conclusion, I'll just say that I'm a DG addict and fan of the sport and I'll take whatever coverage I can get for the most part, but I like that we are pushing the envelope and trying to improve live coverage because that to me is where it's at if you want fans to have the ability to get emotionally invested like they would a close basketball or football game that is coming down to the wire.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think edited post event videos might be more valuable if they shifted away from simply telling the story like it was a "live" show and diving deeper into analysis. We already know the outcome of the event so why simulate it? Breaking down the hole designs and critiquing them along with telling viewers why the player is throwing this disc and type of shot (including the players stating it themselves) and where they expect to land would be much more useful for viewers after the event. In addition, the analysis would incorporate scoring stats and now throw stats like putts to support critique of hole designs. This format would require true expert commentators to develop and record the script, not just film the throws.

 

[ScottyLove]

I only watch live. Never watched any edited anything as there is no drama for me in it. I already know the outcome. I usually follow the live scorecards when available.

And since live is so limited these days, I will forego my plans and stay home to watch (or at work which is the best!)

So I'm your target audience. Do and I'm there!

 

[dtuba]

I've worked in live TV for years and obviously live coverage is way more complex than edited coverage. Besides cameras/mics ( at least 3-4 plus one for wide/cover shots), you also need a director/TD/graphics guy and a switcher that can handle at least 10 sources, several replay machines (formerly known as "tape" machines) with operators to match,a producer, and an engineer in charge who can run around like a mad man if anything breaks (that would be me). Not to mention the data/bandwidth needed to transmit all of these sources.
Compared to an edited product where you shoot, take it home and put it together, live coverage can be very cost-prohibitive. However, if you can put all these things together, it would look great. I'll even come help work on the event if I'm available.