Refusing to Be Filmed

[TimSyl]

I think we should understand JEM is easily distracted/irritated. I have seen, on video, JEM complain about people moving a fairway over while following other players. If he would like to play without some distractions, I would suggest NOT BEING A PROFESSIONAL DISC GOLFER.

 

[philstine]

On public grounds, good luck with stopping non paid videographers. I really hope TD's don't think we're at "that stage" where we can be picky with media exposure.

Well, it depends on the nature of the public grounds. Federal buildings and land are, by definition, public grounds by virtue of being owned by "We, the people," but

18 U.S. Code § 795 - Photographing and sketching defense installations
(a) Whenever, in the interests of national defense, the President defines certain vital military and naval installations or equipment as requiring protection against the general dissemination of information relative thereto, it shall be unlawful to make any photograph, sketch, picture, drawing, map, or graphical representation of such vital military and naval installations or equipment without first obtaining permission of the commanding officer of the military or naval post, camp, or station, or naval vessels, military and naval aircraft, and any separate military or naval command concerned, or higher authority, and promptly submitting the product obtained to such commanding officer or higher authority for censorship or such other action as he may deem necessary.

(b) Whoever violates this section shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 737; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(H), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

Just need to hold all tournaments at Bagram Air Field or Paradise Ranch.

 

[storyboy]

I wonder how JohnE's sponsor Lat 64 feels about him not being filmed?:\

 

[JC17393]

As I understand it, JohnE was upset by other (non-stated) distractions. Videographer said JohnE never blamed him. Again, I think this is a gray area situation: Spur of the moment filming, non-paid videographer, not one of the usual crews. I doubt we see it again in the future, but we'll work on integrating something into the media plan going forward.

So if he was upset by distractions that weren't the camera crew, why then were they asked to stop filming him? Not sure why this is a gray area if the crew was TD approved. Who cares if they were paid or not, or if they were one of the "usual" crews, or if it were spur of the moment? They were there with the permission of the TD so any existing media plans should cover them just fine. Specifically Competition Manual 3.06.A that states that they have the right to film any player they wish and use the video how they want if they're there as an approved "agent" of the PDGA (TD = PDGA).

If JohnE was upset and distracted by other things, that shouldn't give him cause to shut down the video crew if they're not among the things he's distracted by. And even if they were, I still don't think he can tell them to stop filming. Stop doing whatever it is they were doing to distract him, like if they're positioning themselves in a bad spot or talking too much or doing something else remediable. But no way is the simple act of pointing a camera at a player a distraction.

 

[F. Howl]

Maybe use of a drone is not protected, but a telephoto lens, in and of itself, is most certainly protected. Just like guns.

Using a telephoto lens to see through the cracks of window blinds or drawn curtains, where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy, is not protected in most cases.

 

[joecoin]

Using a telephoto lens to see through the cracks of window blinds or drawn curtains, where there is a reasonable expectation of privacy, is not protected in most cases.

Agreed. So Johne McRay needs to wear curtains while playing.

 

[sidewinder22]

So if he was upset by distractions that weren't the camera crew, why then were they asked to stop filming him? Not sure why this is a gray area if the crew was TD approved. Who cares if they were paid or not, or if they were one of the "usual" crews, or if it were spur of the moment? They were there with the permission of the TD so any existing media plans should cover them just fine. Specifically Competition Manual 3.06.A that states that they have the right to film any player they wish and use the video how they want if they're there as an approved "agent" of the PDGA (TD = PDGA).

If JohnE was upset and distracted by other things, that shouldn't give him cause to shut down the video crew if they're not among the things he's distracted by. And even if they were, I still don't think he can tell them to stop filming. Stop doing whatever it is they were doing to distract him, like if they're positioning themselves in a bad spot or talking too much or doing something else remediable. But no way is the simple act of pointing a camera at a player a distraction.

From what I read JohnE didn't ask the videographer to stop filming, but asked to be edited out of the post production.

I think there is a difference between asking to be editing out of the video as favor vs giving permission or not giving permission. It doesn't sound like he didn't give his permission, but was just asking to not be in it.

 

[trout_smith]

Agreed. So Johne McRay needs to wear curtains while playing.

I'm picturing one of those portable privacy units you see on the beach, fitted to some custom headwear. All you can see is a disc come flying out the front.

 

[MarkDSM]

In my continuing study of the turbo throw I am interested in JohnE footage and closeup footage at that. Still bummed I could not make a local clinic he did last year.

 

[Zanguini]

?

 

[F. Howl]

Agreed. So Johne McRay needs to wear curtains while playing.

He just needs to pull his bandana down lower...

From what I read JohnE didn't ask the videographer to stop filming, but asked to be edited out of the post production.

I think there is a difference between asking to be editing out of the video as favor vs giving permission or not giving permission. It doesn't sound like he didn't give his permission, but was just asking to not be in it.

I think the videographer did that on his own, according to what I heard on SmashBox's podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHcunfq21nc&feature=youtu.be&t=1h47m18s

 

[JC17393]

From what I read JohnE didn't ask the videographer to stop filming, but asked to be edited out of the post production.

I think there is a difference between asking to be editing out of the video as favor vs giving permission or not giving permission. It doesn't sound like he didn't give his permission, but was just asking to not be in it.

Except he doesn't really have the authority to ask to be edited out either. Competition Manual 3.06.A says that by participating in a PDGA event, he agrees "that the PDGA and its agents may publish photographs or images of [his] participation at PDGA-sanctioned events". Essentially, he shouldn't have a say in how the videographer uses whatever he shot, whether it's to ask to not be included or to ask that a close up of the logo on his hat or shirt be included after each of his throws.

To be fair, I'm not just disappointed that JohnE would ask such a thing of the videographer, I'm disappointed the videographer would comply, especially if he did film every throw. It would be one thing if he stopped shooting midway through the round...kinda the point of no return when it comes to the edit. But if he's got the footage, it should have been included.

 

[brutalbrutus]

?

He better be careful... Mr Miyagi isn't around to fight off the skeleton crew...

 

[bwgort]

Except he doesn't really have the authority to ask to be edited out either. Competition Manual 3.06.A says that by participating in a PDGA event, he agrees "that the PDGA and its agents may publish photographs or images of [his] participation at PDGA-sanctioned events". Essentially, he shouldn't have a say in how the videographer uses whatever he shot, whether it's to ask to not be included or to ask that a close up of the logo on his hat or shirt be included after each of his throws.

To be fair, I'm not just disappointed that JohnE would ask such a thing of the videographer, I'm disappointed the videographer would comply, especially if he did film every throw. It would be one thing if he stopped shooting midway through the round...kinda the point of no return when it comes to the edit. But if he's got the footage, it should have been included.

I would hope that the PDGA would address this situation with the player, videographer and TD, as JohnE was clearly not following the rules he agreed to when he signed up for the event.

 

[Therealgoat]

Except he doesn't really have the authority to ask to be edited out either. Competition Manual 3.06.A says that by participating in a PDGA event, he agrees "that the PDGA and its agents may publish photographs or images of [his] participation at PDGA-sanctioned events".

I think the bolded is key. It would be a different story if he yelled at the guy and DEMANDED he not be in the footage / use the footage of himself, because as you've pointed out, the videographer is within his rights to film and use it. But if he ASKED? I don't see the issue. He's well within his right to ask, and as has been shown, the videographer is well within his right to tell him to go pound sand. It doesn't sound like it went down anything close to that.

JMC: "Hey man, I'm having a ****ty day/round/imagine unicorns when I see your shirt/whatever reason you could ever come up with, and would appreciate it if you just edit me out of your final video"

Videobro: "Sure man, no problem".

You really have a huge problem with the above hypothetical exchange?

 

[sidewinder22]

The videographer was not part of the tourney staff or PDGA, he was basically just someone at the park filming. He has no duty to the PDGA or to JohnE.

Now if it was CCDG or Jomez or Smashboxx or some other production company being paid to film the event, then I would expect to see the footage regardless of JohnE's request, as they have a duty/contract to the TD and PDGA.

 

[eegor]

A guy filming a disc golf tourney for the fanatics (me included) does JohnE a solid by honoring his request to not be shown on a bad round... gets almost 100 posts on this forum... wow! I hope the weather improves soon so we can all meet up on the course. It's obvious we need to get out more.

 

[JC17393]

The videographer was not part of the tourney staff or PDGA, he was basically just someone at the park filming. He has no duty to the PDGA or to JohnE.

You know this for a fact? Because it's been indicated in this thread by someone I'd trust to be more in the know (Ian from CCDG) that the videographer was there with the permission of the TD, therefore he's there as an "agent" of the PDGA under 3.06.A. He doesn't have to be paid or under exclusive contract or be with a known production crew to be official media covering the tournament. He wasn't just someone filming at the park.

As a TD, I've been approached by someone on more than one occasion for permission to film one of my tournaments. In each case, they were volunteering and they didn't get paid, but the moment I gave them permission to shoot the tournament and publish the video, they were official media for the event. The players could not object to being filmed or to the video being published (not that anyone did). I know I'd be pretty peeved if one of the players on the lead card in the final round asked to not be included in the published video. Wouldn't shock me if the TD in this case wasn't happy about JohnE asking to be left out.

 

[sidewinder22]

I think the videographer did that on his own, according to what I heard on SmashBox's podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHcunfq21nc&feature=youtu.be&t=1h47m18s

You know this for a fact? Because it's been indicated in this thread by someone I'd trust to be more in the know (Ian from CCDG) that the videographer was there with the permission of the TD, therefore he's there as an "agent" of the PDGA under 3.06.A. He doesn't have to be paid or under exclusive contract or be with a known production crew to be official media covering the tournament. He wasn't just someone filming at the park.

As a TD, I've been approached by someone on more than one occasion for permission to film one of my tournaments. In each case, they were volunteering and they didn't get paid, but the moment I gave them permission to shoot the tournament and publish the video, they were official media for the event. The players could not object to being filmed or to the video being published (not that anyone did). I know I'd be pretty peeved if one of the players on the lead card in the final round asked to not be included in the published video. Wouldn't shock me if the TD in this case wasn't happy about JohnE asking to be left out.

Watch the Smashboxx link above. I don't think simply asking for permission from the TD automatically makes you a media agent or opts you into the lengthy media agreement the production companies have to deal with.

 

[onemilemore]

You know this for a fact? Because it's been indicated in this thread by someone I'd trust to be more in the know (Ian from CCDG) that the videographer was there with the permission of the TD, therefore he's there as an "agent" of the PDGA under 3.06.A. He doesn't have to be paid or under exclusive contract or be with a known production crew to be official media covering the tournament. He wasn't just someone filming at the park.

As a TD, I've been approached by someone on more than one occasion for permission to film one of my tournaments. In each case, they were volunteering and they didn't get paid, but the moment I gave them permission to shoot the tournament and publish the video, they were official media for the event. The players could not object to being filmed or to the video being published (not that anyone did). I know I'd be pretty peeved if one of the players on the lead card in the final round asked to not be included in the published video. Wouldn't shock me if the TD in this case wasn't happy about JohnE asking to be left out.

Watch the Smashboxx link above. I don't think simply asking for permission from the TD automatically makes you a media agent or opts you into the lengthy media agreement the production companies have to deal with.

Both of these comments here indicate why this is a gray area. First, it was a last-minute situation: The videographer told me he asked the guys on the card if they were OK to be filmed, they complied, and then he told the TD he was doing it. He wasn't contracted beforehand, or even paid. So while, yes, he did have permission, was he an agent? It depends on your lens for the situation. I think the in advance/contract portion needs to be taken into account here.

What this has brought up is that we need to work on clarifying our media policy. It's already been in the works as far as producers and sponsors go, but we'll be sure to add more about player conduct and expectations, too.