RHBH 300 Ft Max

[Kennets]

I've just recently found the gas pedal (like, practicing it). And for me it's like night and day when i get it right, feels really natural to do the movement when i get it right. English isn't my first language but I'll try to explain how it feels for me.

I do not think of it as a "push to straighten the leg" it's more of a resisting the ground/gravity pedal. I still have major timing issues, but for me, my leg bend natural to the Tamm "position". I'm not one to speak about any mechanics and i wouldn't rely on anything i say : brychanus got this is his form thread, where he rises up in his xstep and drops into the plant. My rear leg is pretty extended and i might even get a slight hop, landing on the rear leg toes, "drop" into the plant and when you feel the weight starting to move forward "pedal" the rear leg.

Man, that made no sense. Exaggerate staying on your toes on the rear leg, don't let the weight shift to the heel and you should feel the pressure. The pedal is for me the only opportunity to stay on the toes and not dropping to being flat footed.

 

[Brychanus]

Quick question:
How do you gas pedal while dropping? I keep ending up raising up when I do that despite knowing I should be using gravity to come down harder. The leg wants to straighten rather than bend if I push off with my left toes.

Also, does it work just as well to land with the left calf extended then drop the knee in as it does to somehow time both with the plant? That would be a lot easier for me to accomplish, I think.

Good questions. You want to get foot to foot like walking or running. But how does that answer your questions and transmit to swing power? How do we get you to do it?

It has to do with how your body is balanced over your legs when moving, which is part of why the head's relationship to the feet and posture is so important in a DG throw.

Here's another way to attack it.

In addition to lifting, you had a soccer background, right? What does it look like when you do this specific move? I think you could show us this one exactly and we can point out where to put your feet and body in a way to be more likely to help evoke the antidote to your power stance. Trying to get your body to feel the dramatic difference between horse stance and athletic stance and how it connects to swing power:

https://youtu.be/wwuSt45Lfp4?t=23

 

[bryantlikes]

SW posted this video awhile back on another thread and I found it very interesting. I can make it work just swinging my arm around but not quite ready to try to implement it in my actual swing. Still working on the proper coiling and other swing mechanics.



The way I understood how this applies to the swing is it is almost like a turbo booster. Pushing too early is going to be counter productive. However, if you have the proper timing I think this push further accelerates the arm if you time it correctly.

But I do think this is more of a finishing move once everything else is solid.

 

[DWhitt]

In addition to lifting, you had a soccer background, right? What does it look like when you do this specific move? I think you could show us this one exactly and we can point out where to put your feet and body in a way to be more likely to help evoke the antidote to your power stance.

It only let me format these as shorts.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/G0dAw2AdtEI
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/f_INO5ZMiGg

 

[sidewinder22]

Your rear hip is getting stuck instead of moving counter clockwise targetward. You end up opening up clockwise and leading the kick with your foot instead of your butt/mass.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139973

 

[DWhitt]

I've been thinking about the previous post and working through it. It feels most correct if I'm falling leading with my left cheek rather than thinking of generally leading with my butt.
Throwing like this put my release more upwards, which messed me up at first because it changed the nose angle. I had to be a bit more conscious of getting my wrist angled, but that was a simple adjustment.

Any potential issues with this thinking, or am I just finally wrapping my head around a basic?

 

[DWhitt]

I also am letting my hips swing more loosely like the figure 8 SW talks about. I believe I was subconsciously keeping everything in a line for accuracy and control, but that was likely limiting my throw in some ways.

 

[Brychanus]

Could be, as usual video prevails, but in general different "butt swing thoughts" helped me work on the buttwipe at different times. To emphathize again, you can now see how tricky even just getting the rear hip to work right to support your balance and shift even if you've done a lot of other athletic tasks. Hips are great because they are versatile. They're also frustrating for the same reason when trying to learn a specific, specialized move.

Loose hips are good.

Getting balanced and braced to shift off the rear leg is a weird move, man. It took me a long time just to do it once without just completely falling or tipping or sinking off the rear leg.

 

[DWhitt]

I took a lot of videos of my field work last week. I figured I might as well link a bunch of them since more data is usually better. It also might help to avoid trying to fix something I only did on one throw.

Standstill 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzej8CaiWt0
Standstill 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMKYYLR7E-k
Standstill behind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEbvwCPWD-U
Xstep 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AvXAnfsvi0
Xstep 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZWYqPCH3ho
Xstep behind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Iq_558wQvg

I was consistently reaching my max distance range with standstill and xstep that day.

 

[DWhitt]

I think Jaani describes one of my barriers pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNkTAjzgafQ&t=59s
My "elbow dip" might be fine, but the cause could be an issue.

It seems like I am relying on scapula contraction for a lot of my power, and that's actually slowing me down. The symptoms match the description, at least. I think this is making my posture appear worse at the throw-out as well.
The only fix given was really just to keep my shoulder extended through the hit. "Well, just start doing it right" kind of improvement. I will see if it's that simple for me.

I'm still pushing off the back leg too much, but it is slowly getting better.

 

[DWhitt]

Or maybe I'm just leading too much with my shoulder instead of my hip after the plant so that I'm tilting into the throw. Maybe all of the above.

 

[Kennets]

rotating the head to look at the target to early can really mess up stuff and i do think that it might lead to you over rotating your shoulder, so that they end open to the target, instead of closed or slightly open. Keeping it neutral and let the shoulders dictate when and how it should move, would MAYBE fix some of your issues.

Have you ever done SW's hammer drills? That will self correct some of your issues. Timing, plant/brace along with a somewhere correct swing thought.

Oh, and posture

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Keep your eyes on the disc, make sure your hand is still on the opposite side of the disc as long as possible into the power pocket.

2. Looks like you are trying to rotate really hard/fast.

Change your tilt, then you can rotate freely/effortlessly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=1m14s

 

[DWhitt]

Ok ok, I will finally focus on fixing my head movement .
Any tips on making it a habit to keep the head with the disc, or is the only cure to slowly rep it out?

 

[DWhitt]

By the way, I wanted to briefly ask about off-arm stuff again.
Adding in off-arm activities has always taken distance off my throw in past. If I am to keep my scapula extended throughout the throw instead of retracting, would the off-arm move be more helpful?

 

[Brychanus]

Ok ok, I will finally focus on fixing my head movement .
Any tips on making it a habit to keep the head with the disc, or is the only cure to slowly rep it out?

:thmbup:

Takes time. Across players sometimes it seems to get better with the rest of the body, but very often it seems to not and requires patient work. Yours appears stubborn.

By the way, I wanted to briefly ask about off-arm stuff again.
Adding in off-arm activities has always taken distance off my throw in past. If I am to keep my scapula extended throughout the throw instead of retracting, would the off-arm move be more helpful?

Just my humble opinion watching a lot of players, but the more you get the big parts of the body moving well, the less likely you'll fuss with peripheral things in the arms that are really just compensating for bad posture and problems in whole-body movements. We see it over and over again. So I think the philosophy to keep the arm relaxed with elbow near hip is fine for now, then you can start thinking about changes once you get the body and sequence in a better place. One point you hear the top throwers talk about (e.g., Gibson, McBeth) is "getting the rear arm out of the way of the swing"/preventing rounding. Basically you want it relaxed and helping you swing "inside" your posture at first so you can get as much of your whole body and gravity as possible into the basic swing, then perhaps you will need additional tweaks. This seems especially important to just relax with the elbow near the hip for now so you don't end up trailing your off arm's weight behind you. I did a couple months of drills holding a beverage early on and it became more automatic later, including the part of the move that looks like a "swim" without further micromanagement.

 

[DWhitt]

Takes time. Across players sometimes it seems to get better with the rest of the body, but very often it seems to not and requires patient work. Yours appears stubborn.

If we're being honest about head positioning, it was probably more me being stubborn. I hadn't truly committed to changing it.

 

[Brychanus]

If we're being honest about head positioning, it was probably more me being stubborn. I hadn't truly committed to changing it.

I think body habits and adult brains can both be stubborn.

Stubborn commitment to form change is helpful in the long run.

But stubborn beliefs often get in the way of defeating stubborn habits.

Best advice I can give you at your stage is to realize and remind yourself over and over that it's a whole body move different from how you've ever moved before, and the best moves and causes for bad actions will continue to surprise you as you develop your own form. The more you surrender to learning a "new move" each time, the faster you'll move better overall (on average). When you get too frustrated or sore, take a bit of a break then get back after it. Read old critiques again and try to understand how and where you were thinking or moving wrong.

It is entirely healthy to be a baby. Every time I make a new tweak or drill I literally think about this little guy or my baby girl learning to walk and try to be the baby. The faster I surrender to getting loose and stumbling a bit and then finding new balance over and over again, the faster the learning happens.

My 21-month old came out for her first "round" a couple weeks ago. Lil' kids throw with their whole body right away even though it's sloppy as hell. You are big and strong enough that your body is trying to use habits that were good for other things, but not as good for throwing light discs far.

Notice how huge that baby's head is compared to his body? Now you understand why the head is also so important to learning to walk (which is really just falling out of balance at first) and swinging (which is so hard to rein in for some of us in adulthood when it is a much less significant part of our mass).

Be the baby.

 

[DWhitt]

I metaphorically fill my diaper out on the course regularly; I think I'm successfully channeling my inner disc golf baby.
I've been worried that it will mess with my accuracy to watch the disc, but it's time that I go ahead and commit to the change. I also have some thoughts that might finally clean up the dregs of my horse stance. Hopefully it stops raining at some point so I can get down to business.

 

[Kennets]

Ok ok, I will finally focus on fixing my head movement .
Any tips on making it a habit to keep the head with the disc, or is the only cure to slowly rep it out?

There's a few options that people recommend, but in my opinion the biggest obstacle is "trust your body". Takes forever getting used to not see the first second or two of your flight, it's oddly hard. People use focus points, I've used hammer drills to keep my head centered and shoulders closed. Feels awful spinning out or not getting the head to follow the throw, when throwing a hammer