QFT. The only real value of hearing about this for most of us is a cautionary tale/ what not to do. The rest of it is none of my business. I hope this thread can die now.
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
Springwood Players Course extinct!
- Thread starter Tenacious EJ
- Start date
QFT. The only real value of hearing about this for most of us is a cautionary tale/ what not to do. The rest of it is none of my business. I hope this thread can die now.
DSmith
Eagle Member
so let's talk about your redesign of barber park a few years ago during summer league...
the redesign was so well received that many people stopped playing your league and started a weekly event at another local course
opcorn:
Damn! Sick burn! Got me there!
I am only going back if I get to play with brotherdave and keltic. I'll bring the cheap beer. We'll need it. We can make up a new game. Every time you go in a yard you need to drink a beer. In a playing field? Drink a beer. Hit an adult with dics. Drink 2 beers. Hit a kid? 6 pack. Moving vehicles equal 6 beers, parked equals 1. Pets gotta be, let's say 3 beers. We can create new rules as we go.
Let me know when you go guys!
Let me know when you go guys!
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2011
- Messages
- 1,723
something to think about on New Years Day. The triangle chain Posse is having their annual hangover classic cedar rock
Rock Ridge is open and is in great shape. I went out and dented some trees when I got back in town Friday. I don't know where I'll be yet for that day, but let me know if you go. There is a good chance I'll meet you there.
Then I am definitely avoiding Burlington that day. Those guys can cause a lot,of damage within a large circumference of their events.
. Especially my neighbor.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2011
- Messages
- 1,723
Then I am definitely avoiding Burlington that day. Those guys can cause a lot,of damage within a large circumference of their events.
True. It is always prudent to avoid Royal
Mattallica
* Ace Member *
Then I am definitely avoiding Burlington that day. Those guys can cause a lot,of damage within a large circumference of their events.
Don't judge all of us by royals actions.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2011
- Messages
- 1,723
I was being sarcastic
keltik
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2009
- Messages
- 2,363
Tenacious EJ
Par Member
Well holy crap this thread got out of hand. In any event, I HAVE played the course, many times in fact. Are there issues? Certainly. Could they have been addressed before the final design was implemented? Absolutely. Is there a lot of contested land? Yup. But it's far from the worst course I've ever seen. There are plenty of benefits of course- it's right off the highway, which Cedarock isn't, it's virtually empty Mon-Fri during the daytime, and you could certainly provide the option for a beginner/white level course. God knows there are enough tees already poured.
There is no question that the soccer/softball fields are problematic, but if somebody sat down and did some planning they could design the course and make it much safer. This will likely require long walks between a few holes, but it's a compromise. Some of the holes you are worrying about could be designed so there is essentially no chance for an errant disc to injure a child. Hole 11, for example, if the tees were lower instead of on the hill, would reduce the chance of danger- that's current 11, not the 11 & 12 smash up currently planned. I don't think 12 has really been an issue either, and the proposed 13 would be good. The current hole 13 has to go, no question- I've had to guiltily ask for my disc back before once it flew too far right into a fenced in yard- but most folks just trespass to get theirs. Hole 14 & 15 are fine, so long as you accept you might end up in the cow pasture. It's certainly not the first course that borders a pasture, it's not even the only one in Burlington! 16 isn't really an issue, because that part of the road is not commonly used. 17 is trouble- I've always said that. 18 is fine, and 1 was ok, but I fear moving the pads will cause more problems with throws going left into or across the street. It's a tough shot, since you're pulling discs back right against a tree line as the fairway narrows. Too far right is big trouble, so many shots are driven left into the road. It needs work. 2 was great- before it was cleared out it was narrow and safe- the chance to kick out into the softball area was minimal. That's not the case anymore. Still not that unsafe though. I think 4 & 5 were fine, and 3 could have been treated like 2 to minimize the danger to the public. 6-10 are not an issue in my opinion.
But the important thing to remember is that the park, though sometimes extremely busy, is also often extremely dead. It's just empty, a huge park with 4-5 patrons, so I kind of disagree with the complaints about it shouldn't even exist. Just as you can't design from an ariel view, you can't get a fell for how a course plays without actually playing it. And while not every pro on DGCR wants to play it, while I see many turn their nose up at Springwood, I can tell you people ARE playing it. And, since I go out and randomly talk to folks playing pretty often, what I've found is that those who play it and feel it's too advanced or tough in spots for them, REALIZE THIS, and don't come back. And that's ok. It's good, actually. It'd be like me going to play Augusta National and attempting to enjoy it. I wouldn't, so I'd probably not go back. If you don't like it, don't freaking play it. Hell, they've even allowed the area club to play night golf this year! Where else you getting that? I have really enjoyed that, I can tell you. There are courses I've played that I didn't enjoy- I didn't go back. But there's a course in an empty park, that's close, and it gives me the opportunity to try some shots, to practice, to putt, to play. A place that I can take my kids without having to worry about glass and tetanus, like in Chapel Hill, or lots of players drinking and cursing, like Cedarock, or getting robbed, like Barber Park. It's a beautifully maintained park and course that has some issues not unlike hundreds of others. I can throw into a yard in several places in Asheboro, not to mention towards picnic tables. Fisherman are in play on Wellspring 17. There's a course in Durham winding through a walking path. I could go on! The point is, there is probably eventually a blue/white 2 1/2 star course here that meets all the needs of all the park-goers. The original design over-reached, and with respect to Mike and the club guys from Burlington, I don't think we're quite there yet, but I think we ARE getting closer, and one thing about disc golf courses is that they are always evolving.
There is no question that the soccer/softball fields are problematic, but if somebody sat down and did some planning they could design the course and make it much safer. This will likely require long walks between a few holes, but it's a compromise. Some of the holes you are worrying about could be designed so there is essentially no chance for an errant disc to injure a child. Hole 11, for example, if the tees were lower instead of on the hill, would reduce the chance of danger- that's current 11, not the 11 & 12 smash up currently planned. I don't think 12 has really been an issue either, and the proposed 13 would be good. The current hole 13 has to go, no question- I've had to guiltily ask for my disc back before once it flew too far right into a fenced in yard- but most folks just trespass to get theirs. Hole 14 & 15 are fine, so long as you accept you might end up in the cow pasture. It's certainly not the first course that borders a pasture, it's not even the only one in Burlington! 16 isn't really an issue, because that part of the road is not commonly used. 17 is trouble- I've always said that. 18 is fine, and 1 was ok, but I fear moving the pads will cause more problems with throws going left into or across the street. It's a tough shot, since you're pulling discs back right against a tree line as the fairway narrows. Too far right is big trouble, so many shots are driven left into the road. It needs work. 2 was great- before it was cleared out it was narrow and safe- the chance to kick out into the softball area was minimal. That's not the case anymore. Still not that unsafe though. I think 4 & 5 were fine, and 3 could have been treated like 2 to minimize the danger to the public. 6-10 are not an issue in my opinion.
But the important thing to remember is that the park, though sometimes extremely busy, is also often extremely dead. It's just empty, a huge park with 4-5 patrons, so I kind of disagree with the complaints about it shouldn't even exist. Just as you can't design from an ariel view, you can't get a fell for how a course plays without actually playing it. And while not every pro on DGCR wants to play it, while I see many turn their nose up at Springwood, I can tell you people ARE playing it. And, since I go out and randomly talk to folks playing pretty often, what I've found is that those who play it and feel it's too advanced or tough in spots for them, REALIZE THIS, and don't come back. And that's ok. It's good, actually. It'd be like me going to play Augusta National and attempting to enjoy it. I wouldn't, so I'd probably not go back. If you don't like it, don't freaking play it. Hell, they've even allowed the area club to play night golf this year! Where else you getting that? I have really enjoyed that, I can tell you. There are courses I've played that I didn't enjoy- I didn't go back. But there's a course in an empty park, that's close, and it gives me the opportunity to try some shots, to practice, to putt, to play. A place that I can take my kids without having to worry about glass and tetanus, like in Chapel Hill, or lots of players drinking and cursing, like Cedarock, or getting robbed, like Barber Park. It's a beautifully maintained park and course that has some issues not unlike hundreds of others. I can throw into a yard in several places in Asheboro, not to mention towards picnic tables. Fisherman are in play on Wellspring 17. There's a course in Durham winding through a walking path. I could go on! The point is, there is probably eventually a blue/white 2 1/2 star course here that meets all the needs of all the park-goers. The original design over-reached, and with respect to Mike and the club guys from Burlington, I don't think we're quite there yet, but I think we ARE getting closer, and one thing about disc golf courses is that they are always evolving.
And yet, you rated the current, underachieving course a 3.0?
And now I'll let the masses dissect the rest of your rant. BroD and co., you're up.
Tenacious EJ
Par Member
Wasn't aware I was ranting. And yes, to make the course safer and more family friendly, I think you will be losing something, thus lowering the total score. Is there a reason we are going after each other here? Seems a bit unnecessary.
The park isn't big enough to hold a good 18 hole beginner friendly course without having issues with roads, parking lots, soccer fields, or softball fields coming into play. It would even be hard to have 9 holes without having a long walk here and there.
I know you did a lot of work on getting hole 8 into a playable shape and I am sure that many people appreciate your efforts. With that being said, there are just too many issues that needs to be addressed to salvage this course.
If you are going to turn this into a beginner/family friendly course, all gold pads must be removed to even remove the temptation of throwing from those pads.
Beginners/Families won't walk 1000+ feet to get from one hole to the next. That means even though holes 1 and 2 are decent where they are, those people won't walk from 2's basket all the way around to current hole 5 (Current holes 3 and 4 need to go).
If a hole needs a mando for safety reasons, then you don't need to put a hole there. Enough said....That means current hole 5 has to go as well.
Hole 8 has a road that runs down the left side of the fairway. The far right side of the fairway has nasty briers. I don't want to imagine what the middle looked like but from what it looks like now, I could tell it was brutal.
Hole 10 has a road that could come into play on the left side of the fairway.
Hole 11 could be broken up into two holes.
Hole 12 would be a great hole if the field wasn't all the way down the left side of the fairway.
Hole 13 just needs to go. I do not know how you can connect current hole 12 to current hole 14 without another 1000+ ft walk
14 and 15 are ok except for the fact that a parking lot can come into play on hole 15.
Holes 16 and 17 suffer from the same issue...the road runs down the left side of the fairway
Hole 18 short is ok...the longer pads are not good as they point the person right at the parking lot.
I know you did a lot of work on getting hole 8 into a playable shape and I am sure that many people appreciate your efforts. With that being said, there are just too many issues that needs to be addressed to salvage this course.
If you are going to turn this into a beginner/family friendly course, all gold pads must be removed to even remove the temptation of throwing from those pads.
Beginners/Families won't walk 1000+ feet to get from one hole to the next. That means even though holes 1 and 2 are decent where they are, those people won't walk from 2's basket all the way around to current hole 5 (Current holes 3 and 4 need to go).
If a hole needs a mando for safety reasons, then you don't need to put a hole there. Enough said....That means current hole 5 has to go as well.
Hole 8 has a road that runs down the left side of the fairway. The far right side of the fairway has nasty briers. I don't want to imagine what the middle looked like but from what it looks like now, I could tell it was brutal.
Hole 10 has a road that could come into play on the left side of the fairway.
Hole 11 could be broken up into two holes.
Hole 12 would be a great hole if the field wasn't all the way down the left side of the fairway.
Hole 13 just needs to go. I do not know how you can connect current hole 12 to current hole 14 without another 1000+ ft walk
14 and 15 are ok except for the fact that a parking lot can come into play on hole 15.
Holes 16 and 17 suffer from the same issue...the road runs down the left side of the fairway
Hole 18 short is ok...the longer pads are not good as they point the person right at the parking lot.
I have to strongly disagree. A hole is safe or it's not. You can't design a hole and think "Well, it shoots over the parking lot but when the park is dead and there are no cars it won't be an issue." If you have a parking lot, you have to assume that there will be cars parked there. When you have a soccer field, you have to assume that it is in use when you design the uses of the land around it. Otherwise you are designing conflict into your park as multiple uses that you have designed into your park do not work together.
In the Springwood case you would need to post the soccer fields closed when the disc golf course was open and pull the baskets for those holes when the soccer field is open to keep those holes safe. Just saying "Well, the fields are empty a lot of the time" and hope you don't have conflict doesn't cut it. That's bad park design AND bad disc golf course design.
:clap::clap::clap:
