The Inevitable 2017 Pros Switching Sponsors Thread

[SpikeHyzer]

Meresmaa actually even confirmed that the Valkyrie sales went down after Korver's name was stamped on it.

If this is true, then I weep for humanity. You would think in this day and age, that we as human beings, could evolve past this stigma that women are inferior for some reason.

So...where does Val end up? Could be interesting if she goes to Discraft.

 

[Mulligan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvCN4yg78d8

Discussion with Val begins around the 35min mark.

 

[joecoin]

...

Meresmaa actually even confirmed that the Valkyrie sales went down after Korver's name was stamped on it.

What year was that? What other discs were released that year? What percentage of all discs made that year were Valkyries compared to prior years?

I'm not convinced that simply putting her name on it caused a drop in sales.

 

[imoser_me]

The 2016 PDGA Pro Worlds Signature Series FPO X-Time are still on sale at DynamicDiscs.net. If the women's support was as good as everyone says it is, it would have sold out right after worlds like the MPO disc. These were the discs that supported the Pro payout for both Open and FPO. I even saw that people got them in the holiday Dynamic Discs Mystery box packages. FYI, I bought two of them just now. Maybe there is still a case to be made with women's discs not selling.

I am curious to see the impact that Dynamic Discs does with all the marketing (livestream/social media/videos) for Paige Pierce. I perceive people are liking all the exposure (like myself), but then again, I am part of the Trilogy family, so I don't know the perception from other people in the disc golf community.

 

[araytx]

Honestly, I'd be more inclined to assume Prodigy. Not only has Cat stated that they have the same contracts for men and women, but they have release TONS of women's Signature discs. Hell, even Mandy Sharp, a relative unknown, has a signature stamped M4 with 100 run (I think) While I'm sure it was a fundraiser with that low number of a run, but, still, it's a disc with her name on it as a young, rarely recognized, 887 ranked player with as many wins last year as some locals I know. (no disrespect to Ms. Sharp, but stating that she's not a household DG name) Prodigy definitely does a ton more to recognize their players than most teams.

those Hannah Leatherman terns sold great. because they're star terns, a very very popular mold. people (men and women) loved supporting hannah and also got a popular disc that was bagged/thrown/collected.

Val got the star SL... which is not so popular.

there's ways to almost guarantee revenue through those tour support discs... let Val choose something that almost certainly sells well like the Aviar P&A with a nice simple gender neutral logo, flat top ring of gators (which sell out no matter what), champ tern, etc.

Some of you are confusing a "signature series run" with a Signature Disc". Difference -- there are a lot of signature series runs (implying limited run) for nearly every manufacturer. But there are only a certain number of people who have a signature disc. Example -- (among many) Ricky Wysocki's Sig Disc is the Sockibomb Compass, whereas there has been a run of the signature series Sockibomb Ballista. EMac has a signature EMac Truth, but he has many signature series discs -- the original Truth, McCabe Mercy, Judge, and fuzion versions of Trespass, Justice, Felon, Freedom, and Enforcer.

 

[DanJon]

One thing people aren't considering, is that depending on the disc and player, they can actually make more off of Tour Series Discs.

I'm not saying its the norm, but let's say Player A gets $5 per Tour Series Disc and they sell 5,000 units. That's $25,000.

If Player B gets 25 cents from every Signature Series Disc, they have to sell 100,000 units to see the same amount as Player A.

Keep in mind with Signature Series Discs, you might have a limited selection to choose from, meaning your ultimate choice could be a disc with lackluster sales numbers.

With Tour Series Discs, you apparently have a wider selection and can have swirly, glow or other selling points added to the already popular disc. Plus the limited nature actually helps sales.

Which would you rather have?

You also need to consider, if Innova runs 100,000 Sig Discs and they don't move, it will probably be a bit before another run.

If the Tour Series Discs sell like hotcakes (which some do) then they will most likely do a 2nd or 3rd run.

 

[Consult20]

Well Simon isn't going anywhere for at least 2 years, good for him and Discmania.

 

[JTacoma03]

One thing people aren't considering, is that depending on the disc and player, they can actually make more off of Tour Series Discs.

I'm not saying its the norm, but let's say Player A gets $5 per Tour Series Disc and they sell 5,000 units. That's $25,000.

If Player B gets 25 cents from every Signature Series Disc, they have to sell 100,000 units to see the same amount as Player A.

Keep in mind with Signature Series Discs, you might have a limited selection to choose from, meaning your ultimate choice could be a disc with lackluster sales numbers.

With Tour Series Discs, you apparently have a wider selection and can have swirly, glow or other selling points added to the already popular disc. Plus the limited nature actually helps sales.

Which would you rather have?

You also need to consider, if Innova runs 100,000 Sig Discs and they don't move, it will probably be a bit before another run.

If the Tour Series Discs sell like hotcakes (which some do) then they will most likely do a 2nd or 3rd run.

This doesn't happen though. Retailers can order discs with signatures, because they are the standard stock (i.e. McBeth Destroyers). They may sit on the shelf at Dick's for a year...but Dick's is ordering in the 1000's for their nationwide distribution, so they still get a quarter for each of those discs. Factor in also REI, Walmart, Academy Sports, etc.

Tour series only sell on the factory store, and individuals don't buy in the same quantities.

This is why I say (and people call me a homer or biased) that Innova won't be caught in sales anytime soon. Some brands may have great grassroots support, and strong individual consumer bases, but the magnitude of retail distribution dwarfs pro shop and direct to consumer orders.

The other side of that coin is you don't make as much off wholesale as DTC, so that allows "smaller" brands to compete and become cash flow positive quicker...aka Dynamic Discs...so they can expand their team quite quickly and offer those Sig Discs without building the same infrastructure.

A bit tangential perhaps...but anyway...yeah Sig Discs net more $$$

 

[wims]

...
Tour series only sell on the factory store
...

Weird, my local brick and mortar store (it's actually just the warehouse of the local importer/distributor of discs that open for dg nerds a couple of times per week) has a bunch of tour series discs like the Des Reading Firebird, Hannah Tern, KJ Teebird, Sexybird, Brinster Destroyer, Climo swirly Wraith etc

 

[SD86]

Weird, my local brick and mortar store (it's actually just the warehouse of the local importer/distributor of discs that open for dg nerds a couple of times per week) has a bunch of tour series discs like the Des Reading Firebird, Hannah Tern, KJ Teebird, Sexybird, Brinster Destroyer, Climo swirly Wraith etc

Infinite Discs has been selling Hannah Terns and also had some Nybo teebirds and Sexton Firebirds. So Innova is selling these tour series discs in bulk to some dealers, at least...

 

[lyleoross]

What year was that? What other discs were released that year? What percentage of all discs made that year were Valkyries compared to prior years?

I'm not convinced that simply putting her name on it caused a drop in sales.

It doesn't matter what else is going on. The presumption is that putting the name on the disc increases sales. If it can't compete against other factors it has a low impact and low value.

 

[lyleoross]

Well Simon isn't going anywhere for at least 2 years, good for him and Discmania.

Wow! An on topic post. I'm psyched to see Simon again.

 

[loki the trickster]

It doesn't matter what else is going on. The presumption is that putting the name on the disc increases sales. If it can't compete against other factors it has a low impact and low value.

I want to add to this... at my local area discgolf pro shop the jk pro valks were still on the shelf after the other clear pro/proline plastic became champion.

 

[Rob Martin]

The 2016 PDGA Pro Worlds Signature Series FPO X-Time are still on sale at DynamicDiscs.net. If the women's support was as good as everyone says it is, it would have sold out right after worlds like the MPO disc. These were the discs that supported the Pro payout for both Open and FPO. I even saw that people got them in the holiday Dynamic Discs Mystery box packages. FYI, I bought two of them just now. Maybe there is still a case to be made with women's discs not selling.

As a huge Innova supporter, I'm frustrated with the current situation, and I completely understand Val's reasoning for leaving. It stems from a position Val believes if Innova would have been more supportive early on, the current landscape would not be so skewed to male players. I concede that could be (and probably is) true.

However, this comment above is very revealing of the actual situation companies face. Right or wrong, this is the reality.

 

[wims]

New players don't know anything about how disc companies support female players. I'd be very surprised if they even considered it. Innova's alledged lack of support has nothing to do with having few female players. Females simply do not care for disc golf as much as males do. That's why 92% of the players are men.

 

[PMcBeth]

The 2016 PDGA Pro Worlds Signature Series FPO X-Time are still on sale at DynamicDiscs.net. If the women's support was as good as everyone says it is, it would have sold out right after worlds like the MPO disc. These were the discs that supported the Pro payout for both Open and FPO. I even saw that people got them in the holiday Dynamic Discs Mystery box packages. FYI, I bought two of them just now. Maybe there is still a case to be made with women's discs not selling.

I am curious to see the impact that Dynamic Discs does with all the marketing (livestream/social media/videos) for Paige Pierce. I perceive people are liking all the exposure (like myself), but then again, I am part of the Trilogy family, so I don't know the perception from other people in the disc golf community.

This nailed it, if you all want women to be equal in Disc Golf you all need to support them as equals. Sponsors only have so much control over what a player can sell, it's ultimately the consumers who have to show the support by actually purchasing their products.

Innova is the largest supporter of Women's disc golf, unfourtatly for the reason stated above that hasn't convertaded over to individuals yet.

 

[ZAMson]

Sponsors have marketing departments, that's why anyone knows about or buys anything from that company.

 

[Finny]

This nailed it, if you all want women to be equal in Disc Golf you all need to support them as equals. Sponsors only have so much control over what a player can sell, it's ultimately the consumers who have to show the support by actually purchasing their products.

Innova is the largest supporter of Women's disc golf, unfourtatly for the reason stated above that hasn't convertaded over to individuals yet.

Based on what we've seen recently with Val and Paige, Innova is the "largest supporter" of women's disc golf only because they are BY FAR the largest company in disc golf. What DD is doing for Paige right now blows away what any other company is doing for their female pros.

 

[lyleoross]

Based on what we've seen recently with Val and Paige, Innova is the "largest supporter" of women's disc golf only because they are BY FAR the largest company in disc golf. What DD is doing for Paige right now blows away what any other company is doing for their female pros.

There are two sides to that. The first is, they're doing more for females based on what? What's your measure. Innova started doing things for women a very long time ago, before they become the evil Empire. (My expectation is that Paul will do a Darth imitation in the next Champs and Chumps). Discraft gets the same credit.

If I am DD I'm going to leverage the talent I have to my benefit. At the moment that is PP. So we're getting PP. Yep, it's good, and good of them, and great for Paige. But if they had Innova's stable would they do the same?

BTW, if Val really wants to help women, a move in the same direction would be smart. Go to a company that is good at marketing and wants the most high profile face it can get.

BTW, DD is smart. What they are doing is smart. If the big boys aren't careful they're gonna take a bite.

 

[AndyJB]

Based on what we've seen recently with Val and Paige, Innova is the "largest supporter" of women's disc golf only because they are BY FAR the largest company in disc golf. What DD is doing for Paige right now blows away what any other company is doing for their female pros.

Correct.
Dynamic is treating Paige like their marquee player because honestly, she is. There are a plethora of top male stars under the Trilogy umbrella but if I may be so bold, Paige is the number one star under Dynamic specifically.

I also have to give props to the Ricos who treated Sarah Hokum like the superstar she is after she signed with them. Their marketing is more California based but they do a great job for her as well. As much as I love the company, Legacy is still small potatoes even compared to DD, therefore, Hokum hasn't gotten the overall market penetration that PP has in the last week.