Trebuchet disc golf - YouTube channel

Kennets

Par Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2022


First off, this isn't meant as a shit-post as I actually like Owen and his content in his channel. I wrote the comment in the video above (regarding an older video), as I had trouble understanding his drill, which he's trying to clarify here.

What do you guys think of his drill (and his points in general)? I know SW covers the topic in quite few of his videos too.

But a general discussion about the content in this video would be great!



Shameless promoting of his newest video, that I find super interesting too. I know we've had similar "discussions" on here regarding the same topic.

I think he's a fresh breath of air and the best part is : he really wants to improve, so he'll listen to everyone and have a sober debate about anything really.
 
Owen is a pretty sharp guy. He understands a lot of what he's talking about. He's a bit stubborn on some things too.

There are some things that him and I disagree on, I believe SW is more on my side for them. It's been a while. but I remember some weird disagreements on such things like the comparing DG to other sports stuff, so I guess I'll watch.

Looks like he was answering YT questions with a video.
It's a good thing to do.
I'm glad he's getting content going and doing stuff.
 
I had to block him on Facebook. I don’t give a ton of form cirques, but every time I did, he would chime in and tell me how I was wrong. I couldn’t take it anymore.
 
I personally think that there are good tips in almost every channel trying to provide backhand analysis. I also believe that almost all of us will have to collect various tips and implement them in a personal way to have success. I don't hate everything this guy is saying...but...

Locking the knee deliberately like this seems like a true recipe for disaster. I am 100% not sold that a locked knee is required for huge amounts of power. This is a bi-product of how force is generated from the ground up. Advanced athletes, when analyzed, do end up flirting with injurious movement extremes, but this shouldn't be a goal in and of itself.

I hope someday videos and coaching is more compartmentalized to skill levels and distance/power goals. This guy says some things that make me scratch my head...like not being able to throw a stand-still 340' himself...but then using DAVID F***ING WIGGINS as the model for what his drill is supposed to mimic?!

To each their own...but anyone that is just learning should be careful with this one, I do not recommend that you perform actions with the goal of locking your knee out like this.
 
I personally think that there are good tips in almost every channel trying to provide backhand analysis. I also believe that almost all of us will have to collect various tips and implement them in a personal way to have success. I don't hate everything this guy is saying...but...

Locking the knee deliberately like this seems like a true recipe for disaster. I am 100% not sold that a locked knee is required for huge amounts of power. This is a bi-product of how force is generated from the ground up. Advanced athletes, when analyzed, do end up flirting with injurious movement extremes, but this shouldn't be a goal in and of itself.

I hope someday videos and coaching is more compartmentalized to skill levels and distance/power goals. This guy says some things that make me scratch my head...like not being able to throw a stand-still 340' himself...but then using DAVID F***ING WIGGINS as the model for what his drill is supposed to mimic?!

To each their own...but anyone that is just learning should be careful with this one, I do not recommend that you perform actions with the goal of locking your knee out like this.
He's a bit more of a linear teacher when it comes to how he teaches, doesn't have as much ... give for other options I guess? He's more open to discussion though which makes him a far better coach in my eyes.

I'd love to make more compartmentalized video's personally.
But here is the overall issue. Some stuff you can explain, but not teach.
Other things require a bit more elaboration.

Disc golfers are not interested in video's over 5 minutes generally. They have no attention span.
 
I had to block him on Facebook. I don’t give a ton of form cirques, but every time I did, he would chime in and tell me how I was wrong. I couldn’t take it anymore.
That's funny.

But... facebook and reddit form review area's are... atrociously bad. 5 guys giving good advice and 500 people giving all the wrong advice.
 
He's a bit more of a linear teacher when it comes to how he teaches, doesn't have as much ... give for other options I guess? He's more open to discussion though which makes him a far better coach in my eyes.

I'd love to make more compartmentalized video's personally.
But here is the overall issue. Some stuff you can explain, but not teach.
Other things require a bit more elaboration.

Disc golfers are not interested in video's over 5 minutes generally. They have no attention span.
So...thoughts on the locked knee drill then?
 
my knee's are blown out, i'd not even think to want to attempt locking my knee.
Yep exactly lol. My knees are healthy and I wouldn't do that one either, at least not with the goal of locking it. Im not 100% sure how close I come to full extension lately in my swing.

I hadn't looked at this guy's channel before and I will at least say that you are right, he is open to criticism and recanting bad info. I checked out the second video after this one and he acknowledges the injury potential that someone made him aware of.

I am a bit out of the loop on all of the new content out there, feel like I went deep enough into the rabbit hole already lol.
 
Yep exactly lol. My knees are healthy and I wouldn't do that one either, at least not with the goal of locking it. Im not 100% sure how close I come to full extension lately in my swing.

I hadn't looked at this guy's channel before and I will at least say that you are right, he is open to criticism and recanting bad info. I checked out the second video after this one and he acknowledges the injury potential that someone made him aware of.

I am a bit out of the loop on all of the new content out there, feel like I went deep enough into the rabbit hole already lol.

I used to talk to him more, and while he is open to discussion, he can be a bit stubborn when he thinks he's got whatever mechanic blah blah.

And the part that I figured out a while ago is that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

The main thing to remember coaching disc golf is not everyone's bodies function the same. You have to adjust mechanics to the person, not the person to the mechanics.

Somewhere in the middle there, you will make someone a successful golfer.

What I'm saying is, he can be a bit linear in what he teaches, but he's very bright individual.
 
I had to block him on Facebook. I don’t give a ton of form cirques, but every time I did, he would chime in and tell me how I was wrong. I couldn’t take it anymore.
Well S***... I'm sorry dude.

I try not to correct people anymore, but when I was it was only in the interest of making sure folks posting their throws had good info. I stand by my disagreements with whatever it was that I disagreed with. Sorry if I was out of line though.

I've blocked folks that I didn't appreciate too, more power to ya! That said if you want to talk about it I'm all yours.
Locking the knee deliberately like this seems like a true recipe for disaster. I am 100% not sold that a locked knee is required for huge amounts of power.
I totally agree locking the knee is not required for power. I do feel that many many AM players shy away from an active brace because they are afraid of knee injury. I know I was, I wasted 6 months of deliberate practice ducking away from an active brace in one way or another.

The only thing that helped me move away from that towards a more active and safe brace was drills like these one legs. Locking your leg in a drill that has a controlled movement and power level is totally fine. I'm not saying I want anyone to slam into a locked knee or hyper extension... just that its ok to allow the knee to extend during the brace and that is the best way to add power. This drill is a way to explore that and find how much of it you are able to do safely in your throw.

It seems alot of folks don't understand that a drill or an isolation is *not* the full throw that contains all of the ideas that a full throw contains. I super don't understand how common that line of thought seems to be. Please help me get it if you can... Am I not being clear enough that its a drill in a progression or are people just always gonna misunderstand things?

You can't balance on a locked knee.
What do you mean? You literally can though... just not dynamically. See my last point. Its a drill... As we were just talking about I think there is this weird resistance to isolating part of a movement. You said you didn't think a static knee drill is useful, because the knee can and should move in a real throw. I totally agree. But I keep running in to beginner and AM players that have no ability to keep their knee in any kind of balance so it can resist forward motion. This drill fixes that but simplifying the role of the front leg (to literally not moving at all) so that the rest of the body can*for once* organize itself to move *around* the front hip socket.

This 100% doesnt happen in the same way it will in a full throw. Again as we were just talking about you personally really want the front knee to bend as that is a more accurate representation of an active front hip clearing towards its glute.

But again, this drill is an isolation with a handful off different things that can become the focus.

The front leg staying still and strong.
The rear hip dropping down and being the only power source in the throw (note there are others in a full throw)
The spine staying at the center of rotation (note both hips and shoulders will drift in a full throw AND the center of rotation often migrates towards the rear shoulder and towards the front hip, but this can be kinda player dependent)
Getting and keeping the rear leg in line with the spine axis to keep the hyzer tilt counter weighted. This one is big, everyone tends to leave the rear leg too far south where it just mucks everything up.

To make the drill more realistic you can start to add some knee bend that then fires back into extension. This migrates the pivot point away from being the front hip socket and towards it being more centered on the spine. Progression... Not everything all at once. Thats too much for 99% of players.


Did I miss anything?

@Kennets thanks for posting this!
 
It seems alot of folks don't understand that a drill or an isolation is *not* the full throw that contains all of the ideas that a full throw contains. I super don't understand how common that line of thought seems to be. Please help me get it if you can... Am I not being clear enough that its a drill in a progression or are people just always gonna misunderstand things?
I don't think I implied that a drill has to encompass all of the movements of the swing. You seem to have extrapolated that out of me saying that locking your knee out as the end goal of a drill is a poor decision. I assure you a lot of people understand drills, especially on this site.

Kind of weird. I understand exactly what you are saying, I just disagree strongly with how you are saying it.

"What do you mean? You literally can though... just not dynamically."

and...this one man? Dynamic balance is like...the swing lol.

I'm not trying to be overly negative but your post seems...hostile.
 
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I'm not trying to be overly negative but your post seems...hostile.
Full disclosure: I'm a student of Owen's, but I'll do my best to avoid bias here. But reading through his post it's more defensive in the sense of, people say X, Y, Z, so the responses are to the points, not necessarily the person. I think there's merit in making a case - on defense or otherwise - to try and clarify someone's stance. I don't think he was intentionally trying to be mean or negative in his responses. But he's very direct and no nonsense. Personally I appreciate that because anything shy of that in these types of discussions is just wasting time and effort. Not just his, but who he's responding to. That's why I signed up with him as a coach, because I've talked with too many people who don't have time for the specifics, or are unwilling to change their advice based on client responses. I think his response to you above was more conversational than confrontational, but that's hard to pull off over the internet than it does face to face. 🙂
 
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