chrishysell
* Ace Member *
With me it's just drivers and a Zone and 2 soft magnets. I don't need anything else.
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VERY overstable mids
- Thread starter hewittdallas
- Start date
That's what overstable putters are for.
True, which is what I consider the drone basically. And I don't know any other putter as overstable as the drone (and I love the low profile).
I throw my drone for 250ish shots (backhand and sidearm).
I don't throw one, but isn't a zone relatively overstable? And you obviously make it work for you chris! Different styles for all kinds of different players, even at the top!
chrishysell
* Ace Member *
it's an overstable putter. I use it for approaches and holes that are 120-250. Below 120 is a putt, not a throw. Over 250 I just control the distance by varying the power of different types of drivers.
Raptor
Eagle Member
I've got a Gator, and I'm darn glad I do. When you need a really nice hyzer around some trees, but there's still a distance to cover, you can rip the Gator and it will hold its angle. When you need that right hook at the end of a tunnel, you can snap it and it will go really straight and then predictably hook as it finishes.
I basically think of it as a mini Wraith.
I basically think of it as a mini Wraith.
That's more for super overstable mids, like a gator or a drone
Personally, I just use the ZBuzzz and Z Comet, wind or no wind. I've never found a wasp to do any better in the wind than a Z buzzz. If it's really gusty, I'm not going to throw a mid anyway, rather a slow overstable driver to make sure it cuts the wind and places where I want it.
Strauss
Eagle Member
Once I fully eliminated the OAT from my throw earlier this year, I've found that I can execute a lot more shots with discs like my Gazelle and Core than I ever could before. I was amazed that I could throw my Core's on a 300' hyzer line and have it hold the entire way, never trying to flip to flat. Upon cleaning up my throw, I now use my Core's for most left turning shots, I just add hyzer.
I do see how some people can and will use an overstable mid. Just strokes for different folks I guess. I don't think there is anything wrong with either approach. Just two different ways to execute the same shot. Personally, I say use whichever one feels more reliable to the thrower. If YOU want to throw a drone flat for the hyzer approach shot, do it. If someone else wants to throw a Buzz/Core/Roc on a hyzer for the same shot, so be it. It's all up to the individual, just do what works best.
I do see how some people can and will use an overstable mid. Just strokes for different folks I guess. I don't think there is anything wrong with either approach. Just two different ways to execute the same shot. Personally, I say use whichever one feels more reliable to the thrower. If YOU want to throw a drone flat for the hyzer approach shot, do it. If someone else wants to throw a Buzz/Core/Roc on a hyzer for the same shot, so be it. It's all up to the individual, just do what works best.
imoser_me
Par Member
I use the Drone extensively because I can get it to go where I want anywhere from 150-250 even in the wind. It has saved so many strokes that I have considered giving it a medal.
I believe powering down your discs is difficult and creates a larger margin of error for your throws. In powering down to get the throw you want, you have to hit that exact spot. Why don't ball golfers power down a 3-wood when they could hit with almost full power with a 5-iron? Because hitting almost full power is easier to hit than powering down.
At hole 1 at my home course in Watertown, I have thrown many discs off the tee. I have even emptied my bag at it to see what I can get discs to do. With every one of my drivers, I have parked it within 10 feet, but I have not done that consistently with any one of my drivers. I can usually get it in the circle with powering down drivers, but they are all over the place.
When I use my drone, though, I have parked the hole within 10 feet the past 7 times. Now that is consistency. There is a good player at our leagues who always powers down his teebird. He is always within the circle, but one week he will have a 30 ft putt and the next week he will have 5 foot putt. It consistently gets within the circle, but it isn't always an easy putt.
I think that it is perspective that we have to look at here. Laid back people could say that yeah, my driver did the job of your overstable mid because it routinely gets just about as close because getting 5-10 feet closer on average isn't much. People who are perfectionists would point out that getting that much closer on average makes your putts easier on every hole.
I believe powering down your discs is difficult and creates a larger margin of error for your throws. In powering down to get the throw you want, you have to hit that exact spot. Why don't ball golfers power down a 3-wood when they could hit with almost full power with a 5-iron? Because hitting almost full power is easier to hit than powering down.
At hole 1 at my home course in Watertown, I have thrown many discs off the tee. I have even emptied my bag at it to see what I can get discs to do. With every one of my drivers, I have parked it within 10 feet, but I have not done that consistently with any one of my drivers. I can usually get it in the circle with powering down drivers, but they are all over the place.
When I use my drone, though, I have parked the hole within 10 feet the past 7 times. Now that is consistency. There is a good player at our leagues who always powers down his teebird. He is always within the circle, but one week he will have a 30 ft putt and the next week he will have 5 foot putt. It consistently gets within the circle, but it isn't always an easy putt.
I think that it is perspective that we have to look at here. Laid back people could say that yeah, my driver did the job of your overstable mid because it routinely gets just about as close because getting 5-10 feet closer on average isn't much. People who are perfectionists would point out that getting that much closer on average makes your putts easier on every hole.
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Johnson
Double Eagle Member
I have a 178 lattitude 64 gold line core in my bag that's great when I don't want big distance but still need a solid hyzer. Simply does things my buzzz can't do.
A core is not what hes talking about when he says overstable mid
However I keep at champ whippet. used for windy day approaches, <275 spike hyzers, and low line skip shots. All in all, I dont use it every round I play because I prefer approaching with wizards and rocs, however the disc will never leave my bag for those reasons.
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toothyfish
* Ace Member *
The problem here is not that it's bad golf to use an overstable mid. Nate Doss does, he does ok, right?
The problem is that often (self included) an overstable mid is used to execute specific shots and the options to make those shots with other discs is never explored. We settle for point and shoot predictablilty and never learn the value of nose/hyzer angle, outside-of-the-box disc selection, and develop skills that will help us in other situations.
I've seen it where casual players reach for the Gator for a tucked basket, and don't even realize that a low sweeping hyzer is the better shot because of the landing area. Or maybe a stall hyzer, or perhaps an anny shot from the other side. They don't even know about all this nose angle/OAT stuff that we talk about. True, there are quite a range of ability levels, and some of these discs are helpful to some.
The ball golf analogy of a 3 wood to a 5 iron has some merit... but realize the reason a golfer wouldn't power down a 3 wood is that the roll at the end is too unpredicatble. The shorter shaft of the 5-iron offers control, plus the angle of the blade will launch the ball up, create more back spin, allowing a better chance for the ball to land and hold close.
When we talk of powering down drivers, it's more in the fairway catagory, not high speed. Where DGer's have an advantage over ball golfers is that we have so many more options as to release angles, trajectory, BH, BH, OH, and so on. We should use that to our advantage.
It's worth experimenting with, believe me...maybe if I lived in windy Kansas, I'd have a different opinion, but line shaping is critical on the wooded courses I play.
The problem is that often (self included) an overstable mid is used to execute specific shots and the options to make those shots with other discs is never explored. We settle for point and shoot predictablilty and never learn the value of nose/hyzer angle, outside-of-the-box disc selection, and develop skills that will help us in other situations.
I've seen it where casual players reach for the Gator for a tucked basket, and don't even realize that a low sweeping hyzer is the better shot because of the landing area. Or maybe a stall hyzer, or perhaps an anny shot from the other side. They don't even know about all this nose angle/OAT stuff that we talk about. True, there are quite a range of ability levels, and some of these discs are helpful to some.
The ball golf analogy of a 3 wood to a 5 iron has some merit... but realize the reason a golfer wouldn't power down a 3 wood is that the roll at the end is too unpredicatble. The shorter shaft of the 5-iron offers control, plus the angle of the blade will launch the ball up, create more back spin, allowing a better chance for the ball to land and hold close.
When we talk of powering down drivers, it's more in the fairway catagory, not high speed. Where DGer's have an advantage over ball golfers is that we have so many more options as to release angles, trajectory, BH, BH, OH, and so on. We should use that to our advantage.
It's worth experimenting with, believe me...maybe if I lived in windy Kansas, I'd have a different opinion, but line shaping is critical on the wooded courses I play.
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garublador
* Ace Member *
If you build your throw from the hit back it's actually very easy to power down and keep consistency. All you do is take fewer steps and/or have a shorter reach back. The late acceleration and hit is exactly the same, you just eliminate the distance you get from your legs and core.
You're right that there's a narrow band of how hard you can hit it and get consistency, though. It's just that there are better ways of powering down.
So if a pro golfer is 20 yards from the hole and off the green what club does he use to hit it with full power?
That's an excellent argument for throwing a mid instead of a driver for a straight drive, but that's not really what we're talking about.
Again, the argument isn't that you can't hit a certain shot really consistently, it's that if you came to a similar hole but with the basket 30' closer or farther you'd have a harder time hitting those lines, too.
I'm not sure that's really the difference. The difference is the "laid back" people are suggesting taking a bit of time (it's not nearly as hard as you'd think) to learn to perform all of the shots you're currently performing with your overstable mid with an overstable driver instead. With those added skills you'll have just as much consistency as you did with the mid, but way more line and distance options. Even moving up to a slow overstable driver, like a Whippet or Blaze, will make a big difference. I know I have tried it both ways and after 9 holes of comparing the differences I saw no reason to throw an overstable mid. I'm guessing some of the others who are arguing the same point have had the same revelation.
The "perfectionists" want a disc that will perform one certain line really consistently and then they look for that one line whenever they can rather than finding the best line. Granted, those will be the same many times, but not always.
Just thought "imoser me" should know that several of us feel the same way he does and do some of the same things as well. I park holes all the time with my Drone and will continue to do so despite the conversations I've had with others here. I have a huge yard and practice driving with mids and putters at my home frequently. Through practice, I have decided that I will never drive with a putter into a headwind. As many arguments as they can make about why not to use this disc, there are counterpoints as to why it is improper to throw a disc designed to putt with and that is affected by the wind so easily off the tee box. Their response is usually that they never flip over their Wizard, which brings me to my point. They never flip the Wizard, because it is so overstable… I never flip my Drone for the exact same reason. For me, it's personal preference. I score just fine with my FLX Drone on shorter holes. They are trying to tell you that it is in your best interest if you get away from the overstable mids because of all the reasons listed on each of these two threads. What they are not saying to you is that using a firbird or a whippet for your upshot constantly leads to bigger skips and more blow bys past your target. Any user of a Drone knows that one of the selling points of it is that you never go 10' past where you initially hit the ground. The FLX plastic absorbs the impact and disperses the energy, allowing it to die where it landed. It is a matter of personal preference.
Again, they are speaking of technically sound skills to help you advance your game. That has a place in our developing into better players, but as a grown man with job, family, and responsibility pulling at me from ever direction; I have no desire to spend the days or weeks to learn something I already excel at by using a disc they consider unnecessary. My $0.02.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18411
Again, they are speaking of technically sound skills to help you advance your game. That has a place in our developing into better players, but as a grown man with job, family, and responsibility pulling at me from ever direction; I have no desire to spend the days or weeks to learn something I already excel at by using a disc they consider unnecessary. My $0.02.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18411
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So how has this gone for you jdw80550? My experiment has taught me that trying to tee off with any sort of putter leads to frustration and poor scores on holes that I consistently score well on with my Drone or Buzzz. A putter into any sort of headwind seems to be a fool's gamble. I will continue to throw my overstable midrange on shorter holes and upshots because I trust it because I know exactly what it's going to do.
garublador
* Ace Member *
Here's a couple questions.
For those using really overstable mids, how many of you have learned to throw a really overstable driver consistently for those same shots but ended up choosing the overstable mid instead?
For those using overtable drivers, how many of you started with an overstable mid, learned to throw very overstable drivers and decided overstable mids didn't have a spot in your bag?
For anyone who's learned how to throw a very overstable driver for the same shots as very overstable mids, how difficult was it to learn?
For anyone who's tried to learn to throw a very overstable driver for the same shots as a very overstable mid, how many have also built their throw from the hit back and/or have worked on driving from a standstill or with less reach back?
For me, replacing a Demon with a Blaze took a half casual round of comparison and work before I decided the Demon was useless to me. Most of that work was done in 3-4 throws on one hole. To replace the Blaze with the Spirit I learned to throw from the hit back and decided I could easily pull off the same shots. At the same time I gained 20' on how far I can consistently drive my mids. That took a couple field sessons of work but my driving consistency has never been better.
For those using really overstable mids, how many of you have learned to throw a really overstable driver consistently for those same shots but ended up choosing the overstable mid instead?
For those using overtable drivers, how many of you started with an overstable mid, learned to throw very overstable drivers and decided overstable mids didn't have a spot in your bag?
For anyone who's learned how to throw a very overstable driver for the same shots as very overstable mids, how difficult was it to learn?
For anyone who's tried to learn to throw a very overstable driver for the same shots as a very overstable mid, how many have also built their throw from the hit back and/or have worked on driving from a standstill or with less reach back?
For me, replacing a Demon with a Blaze took a half casual round of comparison and work before I decided the Demon was useless to me. Most of that work was done in 3-4 throws on one hole. To replace the Blaze with the Spirit I learned to throw from the hit back and decided I could easily pull off the same shots. At the same time I gained 20' on how far I can consistently drive my mids. That took a couple field sessons of work but my driving consistency has never been better.
toothyfish
* Ace Member *
N/A
Me
Took me a short while with a Whippet (10 throws?). Switched to Firebird, spend an hour throwing 150-250 ft shots to a big pine tree, trying to get under branches, near the trunk, throwing low and straight lines, bigger hyzers, skip shots, etc.
Me. Been working alot on standing throws lately.
Yup. Messed around for an hour in a grassy field, with 4 Firebirds, and two beers. Done. BTW, they were Labatt's Blue, worked better for me than Coors.
I really do like the Whippet, though. I would highly recommend it as a starting point for anyone wanting to try this. DX plastic, cheap, effective....if you keep them great, if not, you're not out much money.
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agentdozzer
Eagle Member
All that really matters at the end of the day is your final score, It doesnt matter what disc you use this horse is dead leave it alone. Most of us will never get rid of our gator drones and some of you will never have them big deal.
agent_peebody
* Ace Member *
which agency are you from, dozzer?
Garu, as I'm sure you expected, yes I build from the hit back, did use osm's, and no longer have one in the bag. It wasn't hard but I wanted to be sure I wasn't just buying into Internet hype, so I went to 12 diverse courses and for every drone shot, I used my force.
I view the non- osm idea the same as I treat flex shots. I'd rather be able to without and add if nessecary than to rely on one option. I think what garu was eluding to is that most that try going without a osm find no need, if you tried but decided to keep one- more power to you. But you really can't comment if you haven't tried.
I'll use a simillar example to get my point across:
Why would I try throwing a fairway driver straight when I can flex this hsdriver out there. It works well for me plus I see many good players using this technique.
Or
why throw a buzzz on a hyzer when I can just throw a wasp straight.
I view the non- osm idea the same as I treat flex shots. I'd rather be able to without and add if nessecary than to rely on one option. I think what garu was eluding to is that most that try going without a osm find no need, if you tried but decided to keep one- more power to you. But you really can't comment if you haven't tried.
I'll use a simillar example to get my point across:
Why would I try throwing a fairway driver straight when I can flex this hsdriver out there. It works well for me plus I see many good players using this technique.
Or
why throw a buzzz on a hyzer when I can just throw a wasp straight.
agentdozzer
Eagle Member
Been my internet allias since 7th grade use it for all my screennames, Not sure what I was thinking or on when I came up with it.
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