What is next for Gateway?

[Dana]

Rightfully so. It is literally a JOKE that anyone can design a course. It is up to the dg companies and park districts (or whoever) to stop this. Here in Illinois, it is absolutely laughable that Park Districts put such little stock into having a professional design. Illinois is known as one of the leaders in the Park and Rec world, yet we have an absurd amount of unsafe/poorly designed courses inside of our public parks.

 

[Cgkdisc]

He's also concerned about some aspects of his own designs in the past, not just designs by others, but he may not be able to persuade the current course owners/managers to do any revisions.

 

[lbond]

Vichy being the standard for safety?

HA! Love me some OMO but it honestly terrifying in spots and I always leave bloody. No exception.

 

[notroman]

HA! Love me some OMO but it honestly terrifying in spots and I always leave bloody. No exception.

This past fall was the first time I played Ozark in shorts. It was just too hot for pants.

Need to have a plan B next year because the thorns were just as bad as any other year.

 

[codyroberts18]

I'm confused about him wanting the course safety? Doesn't Endicott have its fair share of blind shots?

 

[skottyb]

I believe the Titan will not be sold for new courses unless Dave either designs it or approves the course design.

This can't be true, Prides Creek Park in Petersburg, IN has Titans and Dave did not design it. But the Evansville crew has many ties with Gateway so he may have been doing them a favor. They are by FAR the best baskets I have crashed a disc into.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Didn't something spill over to here or DGR about him refusing to sell baskets because he considered the design unsafe?

I know of at least one course that were supposed to have Titans, but he demanded a few holes be changed for safety. (They did not, thus, Discatchers)

Vichy being the standard for safety?

Vichy is private. It also doens't have many hazards as far as someone injuring someone else. It's just likely that you'll injure yourself. But it was your decision to play there.

 

[tbird888]

As mentioned earlier in this thread, Dave has become very concerned about company exposure the way several courses and holes he's seen are designed and installed.

I didn't think about liability on the basket manufacturer side of things. It's amazing that a lawyer can actually point a finger at manufacturers because of a designer's choice to buy from him.

I don't know why I'm shocked at all with warnings appearing in the tooling of discs. I know the Boss has "Disc Golf Only" or something similar in its tooling.

 

[Pwingles]

I know of at least one course that were supposed to have Titans, but he demanded a few holes be changed for safety. (They did not, thus, Discatchers)



Vichy is private. It also doens't have many hazards as far as someone injuring someone else. It's just likely that you'll injure yourself. But it was your decision to play there.

True.
Liability is liability though, someone is responsible. Even though they dont own it anymore, he still designed it.

Also true w/r/t the fact its easier to injure yourself as opposed to others, i realize its a different safety issue that he is trying to improve, but it is a bit comical considering the safety stance he is pushing design wise. Almost like saying its ok to design a course where you could fall to your death but getting hit with a frisbee while walking your dog is turrrble.

It is damn beautiful land though


*edit
Not saying liability is his since he designed it. Saying only that someone would be. Assuming no waiver, but even then, is dicey

 

[sidewinder22]

I talked to Dave last year about getting Titans for my private course. He wanted to check out the course in person before selling them. I thought that was a little odd, but at any rate he wasn't able to fit in a visit even though he somewhat close at the time. He gave me a verbal quote and never sent an actual quote like he said he was going to. So at any rate we went with a different manufacturer, which I think ended up being a better choice.

I still remember my first encounter with a Titan at Oil City, hole 1 putt hit dead center was rejected. I thought that was just an aberration, and ended up getting a Titan because everyone was saying how awesome they catch. Well after a year of putting in my living room, it's no aberration. I get rejected everyday on dead center and strong side putts that would be in on other baskets. I've not a had any blow throughs though. :\

 

[greg_b_4]

Gateway isn't the only manufacturer concerned about safety of courses. When I designed my first course which is in a county park (sorry Dana) we went with Innova Discatchers. Innova sent Johnny Sias whom I already knew to walk my proposed layout before they actually sold the park the baskets. Johnny let innova know the design was good and we bought the baskets. So thanks to this "joke of just anyone" my community now has a course to play. The only course within an hour. Just a sidenote this just anyone is now working on 3 more area courses

 

[DiscinMiller]

I am defintely curious to see where gateway goes the next year or two. It seems to me the company is subsisting on wizard sales, and perhaps thats enough. It seems to me that bottom line and being super profitable isnt the main design of the owner anymore. He wants to grow the sport in a safe way and hopefully installing some of his hardware along the way.

In the end, i cant be upset by that. In fact i wish Taylor Made golf was a little less interested in enormous profits, so i dont feel compelled to buy each subsequent model because it's so much better than last years.

I am a little shocked with some of your animosity towards "just anyone" building a course and so on.

This is the same elitist attitude that permeates the real sport of golf.

many of us started out on or still play on courses that by in large were designed by amateurs and hobbyists. These are the courses that got us into the game, and many of these local jokes of courses are still some of our favorites.


If anyone wants to build a public course i will play it. even if its a joke.


End complaint

 

[mashnut]

I am a little shocked with some of your animosity towards "just anyone" building a course and so on.

This is the same elitist attitude that permeates the real sport of golf.

many of us started out on or still play on courses that by in large were designed by amateurs and hobbyists. These are the courses that got us into the game, and many of these local jokes of courses are still some of our favorites.


If anyone wants to build a public course i will play it. even if its a joke.


End complaint

The issue with that is how many blatantly unsafe courses go in when untrained designers don't get help and listen to input from experienced players and designers. It also makes it even harder to convince your P&R department that it's worth hiring a real designer (trust me, it really really is) when the next town over just put in a course that was designed for free by Joe the 920 rated player who was really excited about making his first course.

 

[notroman]

Before anyone reads too deep into the "just anyone" statement, Dana said that mostly because of his experiences in the Chicago area where he lives. This area is full of terribly designed 9 hole courses. Many of them were designed by people that have little to no experience with the sport. Prime example: one company does landscape architecture for parks and is now claiming that it can install disc golf courses as well. This company came out to our local course to help the park district redesign it and the guy wanted to eliminate the 400ft holes because "nobody can throw that far". These are the same people that install courses with baskets less than 30ft away from neighboring teepads and other safety hazards.

 

[mashnut]

It's not just a Chicago issue. That's one of the places where it's the most widespread, but I've seen the exact same thing in just about every state.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I still remember my first encounter with a Titan at Oil City, hole 1 putt hit dead center was rejected. I thought that was just an aberration, and ended up getting a Titan because everyone was saying how awesome they catch. Well after a year of putting in my living room, it's no aberration. I get rejected everyday on dead center and strong side putts that would be in on other baskets. I've not a had any blow throughs though. :\

They catch very reliably. I have seen many, many, many putts like you're describing come right back out. But the good spots on them are always good, imo.

 

[fatty mcbutterpants]

Here is my Gateway tale of woe:
We finally got approval to install an 18-hole course at a local county park. I spent 6 months working on the design. It was my first solo design and was going to be the "premier" DGC in our area. I took 6 months because :
1. It was my first. Some body was lamenting that any rumdum can design a course. It seems like that is the case, and I was cognizant of that, so I took my time. I have the skills of a 930 player, but the mind of a 1030.
2. I am a bit of a perfectionist
3. I love this sport. I wanted other local players to see the sport that I love for what it is and not what the other local course offered (look up Capaha Park in Cape Girardeau, MO. It is inherently the most unsafe course I have ever played)
4. Because it is located in a park, safety was the main concern. It was tested repeatedly, wind patterns looked at, etc. I did not want to lay an egg my first time out, as this was-to my eyes- a huge honor, responsibility, and chance to give to my community. I made no monet from it, and probablyput close to $1K of my own money into it. dats luv.

When it came time to order baskets, Gateway seemed like a no brainer. A local disc golf company- what could be better? Here we are with a big bag of money asking if we could give it to them for some baskets. I was told that Dave would need final approval on the design, would need a Co-design credit, and a designers fee or they would not sell to us.

So, no Gateway. Probably never will use their baskets after that. I have established good working relationships with other companies since them. As a disc retailer, I have also had some issues with them on that side of things, but that is another story.

After all that, I will give them their due. They make damn fine putter, for sure. Also, my personal baskets are all Titans and I would not want to change to a different set of baskets.

 

[ru4por]

Here is my Gateway tale of woe:
We finally got approval to install an 18-hole course at a local county park. I spent 6 months working on the design. It was my first solo design and was going to be the "premier" DGC in our area. I took 6 months because :
1. It was my first. Some body was lamenting that any rumdum can design a course. It seems like that is the case, and I was cognizant of that, so I took my time. I have the skills of a 930 player, but the mind of a 1030.
2. I am a bit of a perfectionist
3. I love this sport. I wanted other local players to see the sport that I love for what it is and not what the other local course offered (look up Capaha Park in Cape Girardeau, MO. It is inherently the most unsafe course I have ever played)
4. Because it is located in a park, safety was the main concern. It was tested repeatedly, wind patterns looked at, etc. I did not want to lay an egg my first time out, as this was-to my eyes- a huge honor, responsibility, and chance to give to my community. I made no monet from it, and probablyput close to $1K of my own money into it. dats luv.

When it came time to order baskets, Gateway seemed like a no brainer. A local disc golf company- what could be better? Here we are with a big bag of money asking if we could give it to them for some baskets. I was told that Dave would need final approval on the design, would need a Co-design credit, and a designers fee or they would not sell to us.

So, no Gateway. Probably never will use their baskets after that. I have established good working relationships with other companies since them. As a disc retailer, I have also had some issues with them on that side of things, but that is another story.

After all that, I will give them their due. They make damn fine putter, for sure. Also, my personal baskets are all Titans and I would not want to change to a different set of baskets.

Fair enough if you are paying full retail price for the baskets. Once you are given any deal, by the manufacturer, seems like they would be more than entitled to ask for some compensation, in another way. You may not be able to come to terms with this manufacturer, but that is your choice. If the deal made no sense to you, sounds like you did the right thing by walking. Gateways job is to make money....period.

 

[BC Product]

I have seen dave auction sets of baskets on DDGA. That seems to go against his requirements for safety checks if he will auction off baskets to anyone.

 

[discdoh]

I have seen dave auction sets of baskets on DDGA. That seems to go against his requirements for safety checks if he will auction off baskets to anyone.

You can do anything you want to with the portables...its not permanent.