Woods Advice For A Sporadic Roc Tosser

[RebelZero]

I don't always throw Rocs. I often throw Buzzzes and Wasps instead. Lately I've been on a big Roc kick, though. Every time I go through one, I remember why I put em away the last time: trees. Lots and lots of trees. My home courses are heavily wooded. I'm not a huge arm but I throw hard and I can devastate a Roc's DX plastic with an errant angle.

So my question for all you Roc lovers out there is: what kind of Roc can I toss in the woods that won't go straight from "lightly seasoned" to "canoe shaped" with a few hard impacts? I have a Star San Marino - will that work? Rancho Rocs seem to get most of the love around here so I've never really thrown it. Is a Champ + Roc any good for wooded courses?

I'm really digging my DX Rocs this time around. I'd love to find a sturdier complement to heave at Treeville so I can minimize a couple molds.

Thanks.

 

[bluemarinoni]

Nothing wrong with the Wasp. At the end of the day, I'd rather throw a Z Wasp. My rocs loose stability fairly quickly, but the Wasp still recovers. They're nearly identical, which you know- but it just works better.

I'm interested in seeing how this develops, and what folk say. Also loving the Star Spider right now, especially on wooded holes- the roc wants some ceiling to do all the wonderful things you can do with it, the Spider takes a beating a little better, and I find it easier to control, harder to over-throw. That's my say. Z Wasp or Star Spider.

 

[RebelZero]

Yeah, I usually like a Wasp/Buzzz/Meteor combo. It does everything I need. It's just every once in awhile I get a wild hair to go all Roc, all the time and eliminate a couple molds.

I have a Champ Spider. I may need to give it a try.

 

[VictorB]

Rocs don't go from stable to flippy even if they taco. Just bend it back, it will still fly straight.

Also, if you're hitting trees that hard, changing discs won't solve anything. Just buy more dx rocs, they cycle in stages of wear better than pretty much any other disc ever made.

 

[BrotherDave]

KC Pro Rocs are/were much more stout than some of the DX I've been seeing lately. I always liked the bottom stamped DX Rocs the best, they seemed to come in the better DX plastic but I haven't fondled any in a while.

Some other Roc impersonators in premium plastic: Pain (I think these do a great Roc impression), Vector, QSentinel

 

[colombo117]

I agree that throwing dx plastic into trees can be bothersome, but I have found that my rocs still maintain much of their stability. I have a dx pumpkin roc from 2009 that has hit many, many trees and it is still a bit stable and will hold a hyzer when thrown on one.

One issue I have seen is that the dx plastic coming out lately is soft and feels poor. The stiff dx is where its at.

So, if you can't get good stiff dx, get some champ or star rocs, even the plus molds are good. Or get a Pain, Wasp, or Vector like others have said. There are many options.

 

[JR]

Stiff DX fo sho and that's not the case for my only bottom stamped DX Roc and at least some of KCs from last year was shit. It broke faster than DX! It is very bogus advice to say that harder plastic wouldn't help in the woods. All primo plastic lives long and prospers in the woods. KC ain't primo. Star San Marino Rocs are +molds so if that creates slip issues it won't help. Otherwise it is a good Roc variation and a great mid.

 

[BuzzBomb]

I know there is a pretty large difference between a big arm and my arm. I can put my Rocs out to about 330' on a golf line. I've hit plenty of trees over the years with my Rocs and there is no way I could wreck a Roc in 3-4 tree hits.

My .02$... keep throwing Rocs, hit fewer trees.

I also like the new King Cobra. Not quite a Roc, not quite a Buzz, but close to both and champ plastic. Leave the flash on it.

 

[InvaderMirO]

Could try out MVP Plastic.

Vector - New Roc
Axis - Seasoned Roc
and possibly Fuse - Beat to hell Roc.
San Marino Rocs also come in Star plastic and are supposed to fly like a seasoned ranchero.

the MVP and Gold Line plastic are very sturdy.
here in iowa we have a ton of trees and wooded courses so i understand the desire for stronger plastic. i used to really like DX teebirds as my driver for a long time but due to my lack of accuracy at the time and the quantity of trees i just couldn't keep them around as a reliable disc. even bending them back i would notice large changes between throws if they hit pretty hard.

 

[archmage]

Yep, I'm also throwing my Rocs up to 330' on a course, even in wooded tunnels, and I'm using DX Rocs. When I hit an early tree, I just bend it back and it doesn't fly all that much different. Frankly my bigger problem is that my Rocs don't wear fast enough, as due to some losses I'm down to just one last well worn Roc, and have to resort to Comets in place of worn Rocs. Although I have to say I liked the older stiffer DX better than this new half-R-pro DX mix they're putting out now. KC Pro Rocs are just too hard and slick for my tastes, and not that much more durable.

MVP Vectors are pretty good fit to the more durable Roc slot, I did throw them for a while. But again, a bit too slick for my tastes. I just love the grip of DX.

 

[Frank Delicious]

I don't really feel like the fuse or axis really throw like beat rocs. They don't really fly that much alike except for being understable mids.

 

[InvaderMirO]

I don't really feel like the fuse or axis really throw like beat rocs. They don't really fly that much alike except for being understable mids.

could you explain the difference?

i dont feel like i ever got a roc seasoned well and im curious if i should maybe go dig up my old lightly worn DX ones for further experiments.

 

[VictorB]

I don't really feel like the fuse or axis really throw like beat rocs. They don't really fly that much alike except for being understable mids.

could you explain the difference?

i dont feel like i ever got a roc seasoned well and im curious if i should maybe go dig up my old lightly worn DX ones for further experiments.

The fuse has quite a bit more high speed understability, and being in a premium plastic still tends to have some fade. DX Rocs wear in by losing their low speed overstability before their high speed turn.

I haven't thrown the axis, but I'm guessing that it has the same touchy tendencies.

 

[Frank Delicious]

that right there. Axis and fuse are good discs but don't do what a beat roc does. They turn more and will fade more when thrown nose up or with some height.

 

[jubuttib]

that right there. Axis and fuse are good discs but don't do what a beat roc does. They turn more and will fade more when thrown nose up or with some height.

Your Axis turns?

EDIT: And for that matter, your Axis fades?

Personally I would never compare the Axis to the Fuse. The Fuse is an understable mid, whereas the Axis isn't.

 

[Frank Delicious]

The axis I got when they first came out would both turn and fade (if thrown high enough).

 

[jubuttib]

The axis I got when they first came out would both turn and fade (if thrown high enough).

Every disc fades when thrown high enough. That turn is news to me though.

 

[InvaderMirO]

no fade or turn really out of my axis.

so what then happens when one seasons a roc?
most discs tend to lose HSS as they get beat yet maintain some fade, i would assume rocs work the same and simply become turnover discs as they get worn in and eventually beating into either shreads of plastic or a roller disc.
does the roc possess some sort of magical ability that when seasoned it turns into something completely different?

 

[Frank Delicious]

Now I want to retry an axis.

 

[VictorB]

no fade or turn really out of my axis.

so what then happens when one seasons a roc?
most discs tend to lose HSS as they get beat yet maintain some fade, i would assume rocs work the same and simply become turnover discs as they get worn in and eventually beating into either shreads of plastic or a roller disc.
does the roc possess some sort of magical ability that when seasoned it turns into something completely different?

Most high end plastics and newer disc molds will tend to lose their HSS first. Older discs in DX plastic like the Roc, Teebird, Eagle, Gazelle, etc will lose their LSS first, making them very straight and controllable for a good portion of it's life. A Roc has to really be beating in for a while to get it into the 'turnover midrange' slot (the ontario mold will get there faster than the rancho or san marino)

So, to answer your question: Yes, the Roc (as well as a few other discs) do have a magical ability to become different as they season.* That's why 'cycling' rocs is such a popular strategy - in different stages of wear, they become different types of useful discs all from the same mold. This is also a big benefit of throwing baseline plastic discs. Your Roc is too straight for hyzer shots now? Go buy a new one, and keep the straight one. Your roc turns too much, even when thrown from a hyzer? Congratulations, you now have 3 rocs in your bag, overstable, stable, and understable. The best part(s)? They cost $9, are easy to replace, and don't take years to beat in like premium plastic does.



*Protip: Basically any mold that was created with the intent to be manufactured in baseline plastic will do this.