2015 Amateur Championships at Bowling Green

[Cgkdisc]

I agree completely with your premise, just not implying the TD is screwing anyone. It's what they decided they could offer and who's to say they had the resources to do more? I'm still amazed after all these years that there are people (TDs in particular) who continue to stage great events with minimal or at least insufficient compensation for their efforts. I'm simply happy when they deliver at least what they promised and am pleased and surprised when they provide even more than expected. No problem offering suggestions on how they might be able to increase the number of rounds. But it's still their call.

 

[allinpflop]

I agree completely with your premise, just not implying the TD is screwing anyone. It's what they decided they could offer and who's to say they had the resources to do more? I'm still amazed after all these years that there are people (TDs in particular) who continue to stage great events with minimal or at least insufficient compensation for their efforts. I'm simply happy when they deliver at least what they promised and am pleased and surprised when they provide even more than expected. No problem offering suggestions on how they might be able to increase the number of rounds. But it's still their call.

Believe me I have been to my fair share of poorly run tourneys....I just expect more from this tournament...particularly bc in the past HB has done such a great job....the fact that is sells out so soon speaks to his success. On top of that he has in past been very good about catering to the women who play.

 

[sisyphus]

I hear what you're saying, but IMHO, Chuck has stated the response quite well in his last couple of posts. The team at BG hosts a world class event, and does a great job of giving you a feel for what to expect (6 months in advance!).

Some folks will look at this and choose not to attend because they wanted to have 4 tourney rounds, while others will say "whew! I'm thrilled to play one round each day, especially since one of them is Holler In The Hills."

As a relative beginner, I also choose events and divisions based on my game and my preferences. I'm eligible for Rec, Int, Adv, Open, Adv & Open Master's, and Adv & Open Grandmasters. In fact, I played in six of those this year. I'm 53, overweight, and don't have a huge amount of distance off the tee, but have a pretty good upshot, and now, putting game. So there might be times I look at the courses, decide the value the TD is offering, and go for it. His rules, my choice. And so far, I've really enjoyed my trips to Bowling Green!

 

[allinpflop]

I'm not giving up that this will be fixed....there is no reason for the 3 rd vs 4 rd thing.....what courses each division plays can be argued back and forth but I'm still hopeful that the right thing is done and these 2 groups get the same thing everyone else gets or that they have a prorated entry fee if HB won't fix it.

I hear what you're saying, but IMHO, Chuck has stated the response quite well in his last couple of posts. The team at BG hosts a world class event, and does a great job of giving you a feel for what to expect (6 months in advance!).

Some folks will look at this and choose not to attend because they wanted to have 4 tourney rounds, while others will say "whew! I'm thrilled to play one round each day, especially since one of them is Holler In The Hills."

As a relative beginner, I also choose events and divisions based on my game and my preferences. I'm eligible for Rec, Int, Adv, Open, Adv & Open Master's, and Adv & Open Grandmasters. In fact, I played in six of those this year. I'm 53, overweight, and don't have a huge amount of distance off the tee, but have a pretty good upshot, and now, putting game. So there might be times I look at the courses, decide the value the TD is offering, and go for it. His rules, my choice. And so far, I've really enjoyed my trips to Bowling Green!

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

To add and reiterate what I've already said.

This will be Mandabear's second go at this tourney as a rec level women's player. She is so excited that she gets to play Holler, have a slightly more leisurely morning on Saturday. And I don't know if the schedule describes how many holes will be played at Holler, the additional holes add another 5 or 9 for a full day of 27 holes - 27 epic holes vs 18 holes that made her want to curl up in a ball and cry in the middle of the fairway (White) She's beyond excited.

And let's say your ranting and raving gets HB to change the plan and take that away from her, and next week I have to tell her that oh - she doesn't get to play Holler, and she has to suffer through White again. She will hunt you down and tie your nuts into a pretzel... And even if

I consider you something of a friend - at least a friend that I say hi to in passing once a year. You must realize that others have differing opinions and that your ambition to "fix" this "problem" could be upsetting for some - in fact, you seem to be in the minority on this thread.

 

[allinpflop]

BC of the make up of the board it is really tough to say what all the ladies and old guys would want I will give you that but what if you could negotiate 4 rds and one of them was Holler?

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

I kind of left off in the middle of a thought in the second paragraph there... **and even if it got changed to 2 courses on saturday that she liked and she had to miss out on Holler (or holler plus another course) she'd be pretty upset with the change, she's stoked for it just the way it is.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

^reason being, holler is a demanding course plus travel time, last year she was wiped at the end of saturday playing 2 relatively flat courses, I imagine with holler plus another course I'd find her collapsed in the middle of a fairway somewhere...

 

[allinpflop]

^reason being, holler is a demanding course plus travel time, last year she was wiped at the end of saturday playing 2 relatively flat courses, I imagine with holler plus another course I'd find her collapsed in the middle of a fairway somewhere...

I don't think it's fair to assume that women aren't capable of playing 4rds even if one is Holler.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

I can agree with that statement in the name of equality, women should be expected to perform whatever is demanded of any player. I'm not assuming anything, just relaying the opinion of my girlfriend, and that she doesn't feel slighted in the least and is looking forward to this format much more than if it were the same as last year.

She'd be ok with playing 4 courses, if Holler was on a day with only one course played - I don't know if the logistics make that possible. Friday increased play time and transportation would eat into the fly mart, Sunday would eat into the final 9.

 

[hipster]

I'm not playing in this tourney; and perhaps if I were; I would feel differently. And I'm not trying sway anyone's opinion; just adding my .02 cents: Some players in age related divisions have been bumming for 20 years about being asked to play short tees vs. long; so, some age related players have been feeling like they "get the shaft"; just a bit, for a long time.
Also, Holler is head and shoulders above any of the other courses for this event; IMHO. If I were planning on playing said event, the addition of Holler would probably be what would inspire me to play. I would stay there and play a second round at Holler, and be excited to do so.

That would be my attitude, an opportunity to play Holler, bag a couple new courses, and compete. It is what it is.
Is AGM playing in pool l and will there be a shuttle service?

 

[allinpflop]

With rd1 starting at 12 even a 4hr rd at Holler would be fine....

 

[sisyphus]

That would be my attitude, an opportunity to play Holler, bag a couple new courses, and compete. It is what it is.
Is AGM playing in pool l and will there be a shuttle service?

Advanced Grandmasters will be Pool D, as of the current plan (possibly subject to change, obviously) playing the Technical College Friday at noon, Kerieakes Saturday at 8:30am, Hobson Grove at 2pm, and Phil Moore Sunday at 8:30am. Those who throw together sold rounds may get to play the finals at Wah Bah at 1pm. How do I know all this? That's my division, too! :hfive:

And I haven't heard of a formal shuttle, but there's always a way to carpool when 650-800 folks are heading the same places.

 

[kimnem]

As a female disc golfer, which has competed in this tournament for all but 1 of the last 6 years, I can say that this is a truly disappointing decision for the female divisions. I can only hope that the TD will reconsider and give us 4 rounds like any other division. I come to this tournament to compete. Of course I want to play good courses (so I'm thrilled that we don't have to play BG technical college again this year), but at the same time, we can still play four rounds. If we're the only pool playing the courses- we play the shortest/easiest course of the three 2x on Saturday-problem solved!
Women in the sport of disc golf is growing, and maybe the thought is that by putting the women apart from the other main divisions we will feel more comfortable and it will inspire others to sign up. What I can tell you is that this is the biggest amateur tournament- let's focus on building new disc golfers in smaller tournaments. Quit trying to make our pool into some separate women's tournament that is built to foster brand new players into the sport that may be new to this type of competition. This type of tournament requires commitment and stamina- it should- it's an A tier. This was my second tournament ever. My boyfriend and I traveled for 8 hours to get there, we played courses on the way down, courses that we weren't playing in the tournament, we played all of our courses before the tournament started and then we played four rounds a piece. Was I tired- of course! But it was the tournament that got me hooked as a competitor. So when people say I have a choice to play this- yes that is true. But it breaks my heart that a huge, A tier tournament with a highly experienced TD and a large club, plus the support from the vendors can't find a way to get us four rounds and will require me to make a choice that I haven't had to make in 6 years.
The TDs who sign up to run tournaments should know in advance that they aren't getting paid- right? So in the spirit of transparency, I think TDs need to know they have a choice to decide to run a tournament. They can choose if the terms are worth it for them. I've chosen to play BG Ams for 5 years now because of how well it is run. I'm hoping that HB's good sense with tournament directing will know that listening to the people who play his tournaments will help him continue to make an already great tournament even better for an entire pool of players.
Let me point out that I am very willing to step up the men's division if that's what I have to do for equality- but do I really get that there? Men's rec players can be rated up to 900 before moving up.
My last valid point- if we're supporting women in disc golf- how many of us have our significant other in this tournament, too? Not all men have their women into disc golf, but the majority of women have their men involved (or even got started because of them- thanks allinpflop ) How do we get to our courses when we've driven one car from hours away? This significantly cuts into the ability to carpool.
And did Chuck really try to support his argument by saying that women are complainers????? :wall:

 

[Cgkdisc]

My point was that women and old guys can be complainers so it may NOT have been a good choice for HB to provide them just 3 rounds. But it's his choice to make and your choice to disagree. This discussion is not about women and old guys (although it was the trigger) but whether TDs, mostly volunteers or underpaid, should have the freedom to offer whatever tournament format and conditions they want for events as long as they deliver on their promises.

 

[gdub58]

I can only hope that the TD will reconsider and give us 4 rounds like any other division.

Just curious - if extra holes were used to make two of the courses 27 holes, which would then have you playing 72 holes total, would that be acceptable?

I'm not suggesting that is even possible (although Holler does have more than 18 holes on their course), but just trying to understand if equality is only achieved by playing four 18-hole rounds on four different courses or if it is the number of holes played.

Whether it is BG Ams, World's, or even a local c-tier, it is quite common for different divisions to play different courses or different layouts on the same course. I chose my division the first year playing BG Ams based on the courses - I don't think the four courses played by the Intermediate/Rec divisions are nearly as fun to play as the other four. There have been several other tournaments over the years that I have been disappointed to learn that my division won't be playing the same tees or the same layout as other divisions.

Also, IIRC, there was all sorts of complaining when the course assignments were announced for World's in Charlotte, so complaining seems to be a disc golfer thing rather than a gender/age thing. And, don't the older divisions play fewer rounds there too?

Finally, as I said before - for this tournament in particular I think it is unfortunate that anyone would suggest that the fee be different for any division given how much you get for your entry before you even step onto the first tee.

 

[lil_trumperboy]

The Holler will be using 23 holes to give you the full experience. The course will be in tip top shape, places to sit on each hole and plenty of water available throughout the course. I will also ensure we have a lot of spotters and possibly a few people to retrieve discs out of water hazards. Take your time and have fun!
:clap:

 

[tallpaul]

Hey H.B. and Howie (aka lil trumperboy); how about adding Goat Path in there!

*I might even come all the way as a volunteer to help Greg out.*

 

[lil_trumperboy]

I make no decisions. I offered the use of the Holler and I will do my part by having it ready to go.

 

[bballr4567]

This is now on my radar. Hmmmmm