2015 PDGA Amateur World Championships

[smarkquart]

I have never seen any of these courses before, so I am not sure if improvements prior to the tournament were good or bad for the courses.

My favorite course was Oshtemo; it looked so easy and I am sure if my game was on I could tore it up, but it definitely challenged me and I had to fight to finish second on my card.

I liked both of the Meyer courses simply because there are no courses like them in Minnesota. In fact, the only other course I can think of that was like it was one just north of Des Moines. I also really enjoyed Vicksburg for the same reason I liked Meyer. They were great city parks, but if we had anything like them here (I can think of Hidden Lake in St. Augusta, MN), they have a tendency to be rougher and out in the middle of nowhere.

As for Spinski's, it definitely had that new course feel. Clearly it was just curved out of a thick forest and or swamp area. I can imagine that as it gets played more that some of the lines will open up to create fairer shots and better/safer sight lines. I agree that numerous tee pads were a little close to dangerous landing areas, but as this course was designed on private property with the apparent intent to have a low volume of players on the course at any given time, with two courses to play, I do not think it would be an issue for any time outside of such a big tournament as we just had.

As for Timber Ridge, I have played numerous ski hill courses and thought that I finally had an opportunity to move up. I was so close to the cut line all week but kept just south of it because of a bad putt here and a bad approach there. I got destroyed by Timber Ridge, and not because of anything the course did. It was a fair course that did slightly favor those who could throw further, however, if you were playing the course and par versus playing the players on your card, there is no reason anyone could not have been competitive. I just kept sending drives into the woods despite the wide open fairways.

Now that the tournament is over, are we allowed to whine about Spinski Champion yet? Several holes encouraged overhand/spike shots with teepads or pins for other holes way to close endangering players (3, 6, 10, 15) and a couple of really poorly designed holes (1 and 9 in particular) and then one hole way too easy compared to rest of course (11).

The only other complaint I have is the new holes (5 and 6) at Meyer Broadway South. 5 was completely torn up by heavy equipment prior to the tournament and had basket placed in low lying area (bound to be wet) and 6 had the biggest mudhole mid-fairway accompanied by another basket placed in a low lying area (again bound to be wet).

Vicksburg, the Meyer Broadway complex (excluding 5 and 6) and Oshtemo were great! All courses that if were local to me would make my regular rotation of courses for play. Timber Ridge is what it is, a ski hill course. I can see why it failed as a pay-to-play course; way too much uphill walking to get lots of repeat players. If redesigned to allow players to take chairlift to top, I can see it having a chance of success. TR definitely is motivation for me to improve my LHFH for those downhill holes designed for clockwise spinning discs.

 

[The Birdie Beast]

I got an ace on the hole directly after I met terry miller. It would have been really cool if he got it on cam, he was facing in the direction of my hole, waiting for dogleg shots to come in from the previous hole. I guess we will see once it comes out.

 

[DanJon]

According to the interwebs someone was disqualified for pencil whipping?

Anyone care to elaborate?

 

[bhadella]

According to the interwebs someone was disqualified for pencil whipping?

Anyone care to elaborate?

Changing his score (downward) and his cardmates score (upward) after completion of round. DUMB. Most players walk away from the round knowing their score and when a different one is posted; they will notice. Oh, and he was sponsored. Well, he was sponsored. And this wasn't the first time. Players on his card were aware of prior transgressions of pencilwhipping and kept a keen eye out for it.

 

[TimSyl]

player DQd made a 3 on MB South #5...erased his 3 and put a 2 on the card. Other players in his group noticed when he switched the card to a new scorekeeper around the 14th hole.

 

[The Hammer]

Changing his score (downward) and his cardmates score (upward) after completion of round. DUMB. Most players walk away from the round knowing their score and when a different one is posted; they will notice. Oh, and he was sponsored. Well, he was sponsored. And this wasn't the first time. Players on his card were aware of prior transgressions of pencilwhipping and kept a keen eye out for it.

Charlie Coleman?

 

[TimSyl]

nope

 

[Future_Primitive]

Changing his score (downward) and his cardmates score (upward) after completion of round. DUMB. Most players walk away from the round knowing their score and when a different one is posted; they will notice. Oh, and he was sponsored. Well, he was sponsored. And this wasn't the first time. Players on his card were aware of prior transgressions of pencilwhipping and kept a keen eye out for it.

That is the same story I heard during the tournament, not a very bright move on his part. :doh:

 

[Stardoggy]

There's a large FB discussion about it. Apparently the dude was doing it at multiple tournaments, along with other pretty egregious cheating, but there was never quite enough proof.

You've gotta be a doucher to the highest degree to pencil whip not only your scores, but others as well.

 

[The Hammer]

There's a large FB discussion about it. Apparently the dude was doing it at multiple tournaments, along with other pretty egregious cheating, but there was never quite enough proof.

You've gotta be a doucher to the highest degree to pencil whip not only your scores, but others as well.

Where can I find this?

 

[Stardoggy]

Where can I find this?

don't remember exactly...and I'm at work now...but there was about 80 posts in the thread last night...

 

[ru4por]

Now that the tournament is over, are we allowed to whine about Spinski Champion yet? Several holes encouraged overhand/spike shots with teepads or pins for other holes way to close endangering players (3, 6, 10, 15) and a couple of really poorly designed holes (1 and 9 in particular) and then one hole way too easy compared to rest of course (11).

The only other complaint I have is the new holes (5 and 6) at Meyer Broadway South. 5 was completely torn up by heavy equipment prior to the tournament and had basket placed in low lying area (bound to be wet) and 6 had the biggest mudhole mid-fairway accompanied by another basket placed in a low lying area (again bound to be wet).

Vicksburg, the Meyer Broadway complex (excluding 5 and 6) and Oshtemo were great! All courses that if were local to me would make my regular rotation of courses for play. Timber Ridge is what it is, a ski hill course. I can see why it failed as a pay-to-play course; way too much uphill walking to get lots of repeat players. If redesigned to allow players to take chairlift to top, I can see it having a chance of success. TR definitely is motivation for me to improve my LHFH for those downhill holes designed for clockwise spinning discs.

First, everyone is entitled to their opinion. And I think you made some great points. I don't really agree with some of it though. Spinski's is a private course, if it had been played like a public course, we likely would not be having this conversation. It was a difficult course. Without the traffic, the rough just does not get beat down. It was a bit gimmicky and I agree that there were some saftey issues. The experience/skill level of the competition in this tournament should have mitigated those issues. Overall, I would question the decision to use this course at all. There were other options, though rumors of politics between the Kazoo area clubs and Battle Creek area clubs was intimated several times. Whether that is true or not.....?

I pulled a GoKart and was able to navigate the Pond Styx and the two holes to Hades, at Meyers South. While I agree that the holes are very steep and hard, not sure the tractor marks hindered my progress any more than the terrain itself did.

Having discussed Timber Ridge with the owner extensively, both during the '08 Worlds and this time, the comment of this course failing as a P2P is erroneous. The owners of this ski area had absolutely no intentions of putting a course here permanently. Liability and safety factors were considered far too great. I loved this course and my soul weeps that I am not able to make the three hours trek to play it.

The real point that need to be interjected, into any of this type discussion, was the issue of rain in this area. There were points this spring and summer, where I am sure organizers were freaking. To have these course as dry and playable as they were, is nearly miraculous.

I am certain, by reading many of your posts bhadella, that your point was not to disparage the course owners, organizers or courses. But, your well thought out opinion provided me the chance to present my own. I hope you and all competitors had a great time. I thought Kazoo put forward a great welcome mat and presented a wonderful showcase for some great courses. :thmbup:

 

[sisyphus]

Personally, I had a great time, even if I disappointed myself with some stupid mistakes. The courses were tough but fair (I played Timber Ridge, Spinski's Champion, Oshtemo, Cold Brook, then the two Meyer Broadways, as an Advanced Grandmaster, & have now thrown out a review on three of 'em so far). What I'd like to know is, who did Larry recruit to dial up the incredible weather? This was my first Worlds, but I'll bet there's never been such a stretch of beautiful, dry, cool(er), July weather for a Worlds. Nice work! Where can we contract for that for our local events? :thmbup:

 

[bhadella]

First, everyone is entitled to their opinion. And I think you made some great points. I don't really agree with some of it though. Spinski's is a private course, if it had been played like a public course, we likely would not be having this conversation. It was a difficult course. Without the traffic, the rough just does not get beat down. It was a bit gimmicky and I agree that there were some saftey issues. The experience/skill level of the competition in this tournament should have mitigated those issues. Overall, I would question the decision to use this course at all. There were other options, though rumors of politics between the Kazoo area clubs and Battle Creek area clubs was intimated several times. Whether that is true or not.....?

I pulled a GoKart and was able to navigate the Pond Styx and the two holes to Hades, at Meyers South. While I agree that the holes are very steep and hard, not sure the tractor marks hindered my progress any more than the terrain itself did.

Having discussed Timber Ridge with the owner extensively, both during the '08 Worlds and this time, the comment of this course failing as a P2P is erroneous. The owners of this ski area had absolutely no intentions of putting a course here permanently. Liability and safety factors were considered far too great. I loved this course and my soul weeps that I am not able to make the three hours trek to play it.

The real point that need to be interjected, into any of this type discussion, was the issue of rain in this area. There were points this spring and summer, where I am sure organizers were freaking. To have these course as dry and playable as they were, is nearly miraculous.

I am certain, by reading many of your posts bhadella, that your point was not to disparage the course owners, organizers or courses. But, your well thought out opinion provided me the chance to present my own. I hope you and all competitors had a great time. I thought Kazoo put forward a great welcome mat and presented a wonderful showcase for some great courses. :thmbup:

I had a great time at Worlds and would love to play another one someday (schedule and lifestyle willing). As being a Charlotte guy, I have a deep understanding of how much effort and time goes into building courses and then hosting a AM Worlds. Monumental undertaking. And being a NC wooded course loving guy, I know tightish wooded golf. My assessment of Spinski Championship and the two new holes at Meyer Broadway South were design and execution issues, not personal ones. At Spinski, I saw at ton of discs land around or on teepads and putting greens from other holes. And this was the Advanced Division. They shouldn't have designed a course (private or not) to be used for a full 72 player shotgun start fields if it can't be played safely. Safety should be THE priority on any tournament configuration. Heck, Vicksburg has a couple of significant safety issues (8 and 17 teepads right in landing zones) that should have been mitigated prior to play.

My understanding of Timber Ridge (evidenced by the really dated flyer they handed out during the practice days) being a P2P was that they tried it before and it failed. After 2008 Worlds, they gave up. If they tried P2P in it's current configuration, it would fail. Way too much uphill hiking for getting repeat play. Timber Ridge is a great final 9 kind of course, great views and epics shots.

All of the criticisms I make are to improve the layouts and execution of future tournaments and course designs.

 

[sactoduck916]

don't remember exactly...and I'm at work now...but there was about 80 posts in the thread last night...

Disc Golf Buyer Feedback Group on Facebook (199 post now)


https://www.facebook.com/groups/DGfeedback/945793592126743/?comment_id=946123282093774&notif_t=like

 

[Ballingerj44]

Now that the tournament is over, are we allowed to whine about Spinski Champion yet? Several holes encouraged overhand/spike shots with teepads or pins for other holes way to close endangering players (3, 6, 10, 15) and a couple of really poorly designed holes (1 and 9 in particular) and then one hole way too easy compared to rest of course (11).

The only other complaint I have is the new holes (5 and 6) at Meyer Broadway South. 5 was completely torn up by heavy equipment prior to the tournament and had basket placed in low lying area (bound to be wet) and 6 had the biggest mudhole mid-fairway accompanied by another basket placed in a low lying area (again bound to be wet).

Vicksburg, the Meyer Broadway complex (excluding 5 and 6) and Oshtemo were great! All courses that if were local to me would make my regular rotation of courses for play. Timber Ridge is what it is, a ski hill course. I can see why it failed as a pay-to-play course; way too much uphill walking to get lots of repeat players. If redesigned to allow players to take chairlift to top, I can see it having a chance of success. TR definitely is motivation for me to improve my LHFH for those downhill holes designed for clockwise spinning discs.

I loved all the courses (not spinskis) I thought to work that was put into them was very noticeable. I thought they were world class courses. Now I don't want to hate on spinskis because for a private course it's one of the best I played. Well thought out design and and every hole was a diffrent shot. That being said why would we have to play a course that has never had a tournament on it before. It was not tested for a professsional tournament. The "fairways" on most holes were 10ft wide with trees in the middle. I'm sorry but that's not a golf shot that's a luck shot. Had a great time at worlds had a rough time on that course.

 

[1978]

Last 10 of Semi's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KUKcfd78zc

 

[1978]

player DQd made a 3 on MB South #5...erased his 3 and put a 2 on the card. Other players in his group noticed when he switched the card to a new scorekeeper around the 14th hole.

The story as I heard it from people playing on his card or knowing him from the area.

He lied about 3 or so holes, wrote them down incorrectly. His group corrected the card and turned it in correctly. Another group prior had questions as well...so then they were watching him in a third round and he cheated again.

 

[1978]

Generally the courses were good.

It was obvious that there was no consistent course upkeep group. Some courses were in tip top shape, some you could see were managed by the park departments.

Spinksi's was a great back yard course and fun to play but not appropriate for a world championships.

VRL - Hole 8L was in the middle of 10's fairway, and 18L in 17's fairway. Shorts should have absolutely been played there for safety and speed of play.

Meyers N and S - There were at least 10 baskets that were noticeably leaning badly. Many you could just wiggle back and forth. This blew my mind --> Baskets were numbered incorrectly, MBS #2 was labeled #6 (etc). You can buy vinyl numbers at Home Depot it would have literally taken 1 hour and $8 to make right. Both courses had a TON of cut trees just past baskets and off fairways. There were no drag piles...just throw 3' off the fairway where ever the trees were cut. Many greens had effective putting circles of less than 15'. Past 15' was poison ivy, thorns, and piles of dead fall. There are quite a few tweener holes as evidenced by Steve Wests numbers. 450'-480' open holes. If you could throw long you had that many more birdie chances. Its not a big deal, just too many of them 6-8. We went through stretches of bomb, jump putt layup (because the basket was on a side hill) 3 putt drop in. Star 3's no risk, no reward, no drama.

Oshetemo was a great course, a bit repetitive though, but I would be playing it all the time if I lived in the area.

Timber Ridge was a little long and our round was 5:40 minutes. That was a bit much... but I threw Meteor and Leopards and Judges and had one of the best rounds out there so, you didnt need to mash like people thought you did.

Biggest complaint, the first meyers course you get to in the park. Hole 1's basket was IN TREES, branches were growing into the chains. Here is the Pic.

 

[bruce_brakel]

Replying to Steve West's numerical analysis of the courses:

A course can deliver a wide scoring margin, but do it by testing the same skill over and over. I heard this funny quip:

"Wait, didn't we already play this hole?"
"Yeah, and we'll play it twice more before we're done."