2022 Memorial Championship in Arizona

[foxdawg10]

Not to be that guy, but these ladies can still beat most of us at disc golf. OK now carry on explaining how the FPO players can improve, lol.

 

[Ahildy13]

In sports like darts, cornhole, billiards where player size and physical strength are not as important you would think that women should be equal to men. In reality they are not. I would bet that the top 20 players in world in darts, cornhole, billiards (and 20 foot DG putts) are all men.
The question is: why are men better at sports where size and strength are not important?

I think an argument could be made for any of these sports/games that strength, or more specifically power, still matter.

Darts - a more powerful throw covers the distance to the board more quickly, and therefore falls less due to gravity. This allows a more powerful player to throw a "frozen rope" where a less powerful player has to play more of an arc.
Cornhole - Similar to darts except opposite. More power allows for more options when determining the angle which one wants to drop onto the board.
Billiards - More power opens up more opportunity for placement shots. If you can put some nasty spin on a ball and still have enough power to pocket the desired target ball, you have an advantage.

I think it probably has to do more with societal factors. Men are often taught to be more competitive than women.

 

[foxdawg10]

I think an argument could be made for any of these sports/games that strength, or more specifically power, still matter.

Darts - a more powerful throw covers the distance to the board more quickly, and therefore falls less due to gravity. This allows a more powerful player to throw a "frozen rope" where a less powerful player has to play more of an arc.
Cornhole - Similar to darts except opposite. More power allows for more options when determining the angle which one wants to drop onto the board.
Billiards - More power opens up more opportunity for placement shots. If you can put some nasty spin on a ball and still have enough power to pocket the desired target ball, you have an advantage.

I think it probably has to do more with societal factors. Men are often taught to be more competitive than women.

I can see what you are saying to a point. However most of the women in the FPO division come from an organized sports background, do this for living, have sponsorship agreements that encourage them to win, and have been trained from an early age to want to win. I am sure they are very competitive an want to win as much as anyone else. Kristin Tattar seems to be the most competitive of the group, at least from what I seen. I will be curious to see how the rest become acclimated to the grind of the tour.

 

[nothinbuttree]

RE: women and putting--I wonder how much of it is simply practice time/interest? One can look at the FPO field in any event, even DGPT events, and see the talent level drop off fairly quickly, and often there are not even 40 entrants. For whatever reasons, the sport has not been that attractive to women, and coupled with (again up until now anyway) lower purses overall, there just may not be enough women playing and competing against each other at all levels to force monthly improvement. In other words, only a select few are spending the requisite time on putting for that muscle memory to really take effect. One wonders if someone like Serena Williams took up disc golf (even at her age) tomorrow, and spent 3-4 hours a day on it, if she would be top 5 in the world by summer.

Not sure if anyone tracks this, but I would be curious if the percentage of women vs men getting PDGA numbers has changed any since the pandemic.

Or maybe I am way off, and many players DO spend hours every day on their game, and something else is at play. I do wonder if muscle memory pathways in women work differently than in men? That could explain putting slumps anyway. If someone does not have that memory to fall back on, they have to think about every putt. The brain is the last thing we want working overtime on the green...

 

[Ahildy13]

One wonders if someone like Serena Williams took up disc golf (even at her age) tomorrow, and spent 3-4 hours a day on it, if she would be top 5 in the world by summer..

Back to my point about it being a societal thing; since you brought up the Williams sisters, they did just make a movie about how hard their father pushed them to be the best in the world.
Did Paige's father have a 78-page plan written before she was born on how to make her the best disc golfer in the world? Probably not.

And to your point, Serena probably could be top 5 or 10 with a few months of practice. I think power and form would come pretty easily from a tennis background; it would really depend on how much putting practice she did.

 

[sidewinder22]

Not exactly apples to apples...
https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/sport/article/2019/01/24/women-are-better-men-free-throw-line

 

[Cgkdisc]

Not exactly apples to apples...
https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/sport/article/2019/01/24/women-are-better-men-free-throw-line

So, perhaps elevating all baskets and removing their chain assemblies might level the putting field?

 

[nothinbuttree]

Did Paige's father have a 78-page plan written before she was born on how to make her the best disc golfer in the world? Probably not.

But I bet if the overall income potential for DG and tennis had been swapped back when he was writing that plan, I think those sisters would have been competing in MPO and doing quite well for many years. Or at least winning every FPO event.

So yes, to your point, some of this may be societal, with a large side order of money.

Perhaps we are starting to see a good 2nd generation of players (with MPO leading for now) where parents are being much more encouraging of their kids playing the sport--especially seeing the money the top players are getting. I am certainly not discouraging it with my kids. I wish I could get my teen girl to like it more. As much fun as my boys have, she just has never 'liked' it much. Not sure why really. Maybe that's the big question here.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Lest we forget who we are: people throwing frisbees in the park... to absolutely no one. Regardless of the how's and why's the women's game differs from the men's...

I actually enjoy watching the top FPO players, but it's just disappointing when two of the world's best, whiff with regularity from close range, often not even hitting metal in the process. It's just hard to watch.

If Henna or Evaliina had simply putted as well as the average FPO player in that event, I bet one of them would have one.

 

[jdw80550]

Have to give a shout out to our local boy, Lucas Carmichael, for winning MA1. Hasn't even graduated high school yet and he's been kicking my ass since he started playing with us, two years ago.

Yes, I still play MA2. Yes, I've been for longer than he has been alive. Oh to be young.

 

[dehaas]

I didn't say she missed the mando, I watched it already, I'd like a link to the highlighted that allows you to take it as far back as Jen did. Here are the relevant sections on OB and relief from obstacles.





I was referencing the fact that what she appears to have done is:

1. Gone OB
2. Taken her meter in from the OB line (in any direction in-bounds)
3. Taken optional relief back on the line of play (straight back from the target)

All of these options were available last year, but what would have been different is since she had not passed the mandatory object, it would have been the target that her line of play was on. With the new rules the line of play is always straight towards the basket or object that you use to "hole out", never towards any mandatory object.

If this had been last year her line of play would have given her a worse angle and she would not have been able to take relief as far back before running into OB.

Now, if there's a new rule that allows you to take relief back indefinitely along an OB line then that's probably just what she did, but I didn't find it (and it would be a terrible rule).

You quoted the situation you said you couldn't find and said was a terrible rule…points D and E.

She took optional relief further away and did not receive the penalty strike normally associated with doing so because she was already taking a penalty stroke for going OB.

I believe that rule change happened maybe 2-3 years ago at this point? The first year it was in effect early in the season there were a couple of instances where players used it to their advantage. I'm pretty sure Ricky did at least once, if not maybe a couple of times. Instances like backing up to not be pinched off by a dogleg or backing up to have a better angle to go up and over trees. I don't think everybody understood the rule or how it could be useful.

 

[roblee]

She did not miss the mando. She was simply OB. New rule allows you to take the disc IB further down the OB line. She definitely did NOT take here lie in a direct line from the basked, just further from the basket and then took her meter relief from the OB line.

Sharp play by Allen and unfortunate that Henna was likely not up on the new rule.

New rule allows relief along "line of play" which is determined after the lie is established. Taking relief along the OB line would be a misplay. JA's lie looks questionable; however, the camera angles don't allow an accurate interpretation. The Caddy Book map shows this could be legit. The relief was so far and offered such a significant advantage that I'd think the group discussed it- AFTER HB threw.

 

[Jolt]

RE: women and putting--I wonder how much of it is simply practice time/interest? One can look at the FPO field in any event, even DGPT events, and see the talent level drop off fairly quickly, and often there are not even 40 entrants. For whatever reasons, the sport has not been that attractive to women, and coupled with (again up until now anyway) lower purses overall, there just may not be enough women playing and competing against each other at all levels to force monthly improvement. In other words, only a select few are spending the requisite time on putting for that muscle memory to really take effect. One wonders if someone like Serena Williams took up disc golf (even at her age) tomorrow, and spent 3-4 hours a day on it, if she would be top 5 in the world by summer.

Not sure if anyone tracks this, but I would be curious if the percentage of women vs men getting PDGA numbers has changed any since the pandemic.

Or maybe I am way off, and many players DO spend hours every day on their game, and something else is at play. I do wonder if muscle memory pathways in women work differently than in men? That could explain putting slumps anyway. If someone does not have that memory to fall back on, they have to think about every putt. The brain is the last thing we want working overtime on the green...

Wonder WHY the sport dont attract more women? You can make +$100000 a year and you dont have to train insanely hard like in most sports.. .and the field is not THAT deep.

In most sports even to get to the top 100 you need to be insanely good. .

 

[roblee]

New rule allows relief along "line of play" which is determined after the lie is established. Taking relief along the OB line would be a misplay. JA's lie looks questionable; however, the camera angles don't allow an accurate interpretation. The Caddy Book map shows this could be legit. The relief was so far and offered such a significant advantage that I'd think the group discussed it- AFTER HB threw.

More correctly throwing for the first time from an incorrect lie is a Marking the Wrong Lie warning (802.06 D).

 

[biscoe]

New rule allows relief along "line of play" which is determined after the lie is established. Taking relief along the OB line would be a misplay. JA's lie looks questionable; however, the camera angles don't allow an accurate interpretation. The Caddy Book map shows this could be legit. The relief was so far and offered such a significant advantage that I'd think the group discussed it- AFTER HB threw.

When the video hits the point where you can look back from the basket towards the throwers you can see better. I think it was a misplay.

 

[biscoe]

More correctly throwing for the first time from an incorrect lie is a Marking the Wrong Lie warning (802.06 D).

I don't think so. I think that part is about how you physically mark your lie, not where you mark it (most likely to prevent flipping a disc as your marker).

There is an entire section of the misplay rules dedicated to incorrect lie. IMO 811.F.1.B is what is applicable.

 

[EllEstar]

You quoted the situation you said you couldn't find and said was a terrible rule…points D and E.

She took optional relief further away and did not receive the penalty strike normally associated with doing so because she was already taking a penalty stroke for going OB.

No, D. and E. allow the situation I described in my post; taking relief along the line of play, which is a direct line back from the target, through the center of your disk/marker. That is a rule I've used multiple times and have written two posts in here about her using.

New rule allows relief along "line of play" which is determined after the lie is established. Taking relief along the OB line would be a misplay. JA's lie looks questionable; however, the camera angles don't allow an accurate interpretation. The Caddy Book map shows this could be legit. The relief was so far and offered such a significant advantage that I'd think the group discussed it- AFTER HB threw.

Exactly this. It's hard to see properly from the video.

 

[ru4por]

Since the mando does not come into play, the relief would indeed be along the line of play, from the basket, not the mando. McBeth took nearly identical type relief in the fourth round, on the same hole. With the conference of his entire card. I was willing to assume in the original Allen marking and the McBeth marking, that the players had a better view than, us with the camera.

 

[robdeforge]

Since the mando does not come into play, the relief would indeed be along the line of play, from the basket, not the mando.

the mando would never come into play for the purposes of optional relief, right? optional relief is always to line of play and line of play is now always from center of target to marker disc as far as I know

 

[drk_evns]

So when you go OB, you can take optional relief without another stroke?