The old owner stated that the course was netting a $60,000 profit per year when he left. That place has never struggled.
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Beaver Ranch Issues
- Thread starter roggenb3
- Start date
But all this is just over the tournament, right? Besides saying they either (a) don't want to hold it, or (b) want to charge a ton if they do hold it, nothing else has changed...besides a $2 increase in daily fees?
It just seems to me like boycotting a place like that over 1 event getting the axe is an overreaction on the part of the locals.
Especially since:
Then, as others have asked, why is there no outrage at the old owner making 60K a year off the locals work and then leaving them with nothing and selling the place to people who don't care about disc golf? Seems like that is who they should be angry with.
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Royalhghnss
Double Eagle Member
No, because they're still honoring their agreement, unlike the new owners.
Because the old owner did nothing wrong. The new owner has decided they don't need to honor the agreement that has been in place since they installed the course. Apparently 60k isn't enough for them. I bet that number shrinks this year because of their short sighted actions.
The boycott is a great way to hit them the only place they care about, their wallet. They don't give a f about disc golf, but they do care about money.
This is giving me flashbacks to Bohart... ugh.
I can't believe how quick everyone is to **** all over the people that did that hard work, and put in the course, while giving greedy disc golf hating people a pass... on a disc golf forum. :wall:
Of course I'm biased, we've filmed The Bloom the last 2 years, and will again this year, Beaver or not.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Did the old owner sell to the new owner, or did the new owner bid and get a management contract?
If the latter, not much the old owner could do to transfer agreements, understandings, or good will.
Though note that the new owner's expenses might be higher than the old owner's---might have bid higher for the contract or, if he purchased it, he has those purchase costs. He might need more income to make the same profit.
If the latter, not much the old owner could do to transfer agreements, understandings, or good will.
Though note that the new owner's expenses might be higher than the old owner's---might have bid higher for the contract or, if he purchased it, he has those purchase costs. He might need more income to make the same profit.
To be fair, if I'm driving out to play CO courses (which I will be later this year), I'm still playing Beaver (which I've already played once). For the traveling player, this just means the course will be less busy.
I feel for those that did the work and put in the effort. Sort of. I mean it's not like they are tearing down the course, or letting it fall to ruin. By all accounts all this backlash is because they don't want to host 1 event.
And I guess I must be the only one who thinks a LIFETIME pass to a place like BR is more than fair compensation for the volunteer work put in.
I don't know about the lifetime passes (OG members?), but I do know that current Foothill Flyer Members receive zero discount for playing the course. None.
Ill also add that since he took over, the baskets are almost always in the shortest positions so they can pump the hundreds of people through there on the weekends. It really sucks when someone visits from out of town and you spend the whole pitch and putt round telling them how great the course "would be" with the other positions in play.
I love Beaver to death, this whole thing feels like dad smacked mom at the dinner table.
Ill also add that since he took over, the baskets are almost always in the shortest positions so they can pump the hundreds of people through there on the weekends. It really sucks when someone visits from out of town and you spend the whole pitch and putt round telling them how great the course "would be" with the other positions in play.
I love Beaver to death, this whole thing feels like dad smacked mom at the dinner table.
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2008
- Messages
- 2,233
Tim Thanks for stepping in and doing the right thing.
If you are going to remove them on Beaver Ranch, wouldn't this be a good time to remove the rest of the blatant, vendetta-type reviews on other pay to plays like Black Falls, Maple Hill,Paw Paw,...? Your top 25 is out of touch with reality.
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jeffmonty
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2010
- Messages
- 2,395
When I hear people say we need to grow the sport and go mainstream ASAP, I think about scenarios like this as the downside of what that can mean. People getting involved that don't give a s**t about disc golfers, just how they can make money off them.
Here is the correct sequence of events and what happened, since so many of you are in need of a clue.
1) FFDGC starts planning for the 2018 Bloom, so BR (the propery stewards, the land is owned by the County) and BGDC (the business that rents the ability to charge for and maintain the course) are approached in order to plan, clear dates, etc....as always.
2) In the past tourneys, money as been paid to both BR (checks of pre-determined amounts and in the erailer days, out of pure thank you. i.e. hunders of dollars) and to BRDG (in the form of them handling all AM prizes thru their pro shop i.e. several thousands of dollars). But this year the prices where different. Much higher, and the club was presented 3 options. All 3 options were discussed and turned down. This includes the option where OGs (I am one, and a *former* FFDGC board member) would get lifetime seasons. Note, the 3 options were written up by BR and/or BRDGC and turned down y FFDGC. So regarding the notion that the club expected lifetime passes as being important or conditional is bull****... they were offered and turned down, so GFYS.
And since I was not part of the discussions I can't say exactly why the options were turned down but I can guess. That the club could not afford the added costs, or more likely, did not want to.. the Bloom has had notoriously high payouts (go look) and that is because the club raises/adds a lot of cash thru sponsorship. i.e. The non DG community loves us. This added cash is also why they've been able to have CCDG out filming, perhaps that was more important to the club then paying BR/BRDGC the new fees. On behalf of FFDGC, "you're welcome, enjoy the coverage".
3) A few weeks ago the TD (and club president) posts an announcement to FB that the tourney this year would only be at one course, kinda something players should know since it always included Beaver Ranch. The announcement included the following (I asusme since the logical question would be "why not at BR?")...
Of course there were comments about change, and people not happy about it. But IIRC (check me if you wish), no club board member or the TD really got into the details as to why or taloked any ****. Regardless, pleny of people not pleased.
4) Then BRDG posted to FB their defense to FFDGC's announcement and then got their ass handed to them by the DG community. Many comments there are tame or constructive were deleted from this post BRDGC. Conventienly any there were over the top, or threatening were NOT deleted.. a clever way to paint the scene... our scene. Anyway, many have voted with their wallets and boycotting.
Disc Golf Community,
More facts and opinions:
1) Yes, FFDGC founded and built the Beaver Ranch course. Since Destination Disc (previous renters and charges of the course) has not been involved there as been zero course improvements. This is despite the 2$ course fee increase. BRDGC has been MUCH better at moving baskets on the regular, so some props to that.
2) The pay-to-play and increase in price was mention in comments, but it had nothing to do with the decision to not have the Bloom there. Beaver Ranch has been a pay course for quite some time with no outrage. Any local or regular likely buys a season pass anyway. I don't even think I heard one person bitch about the season pass cost increase.. maybe 10 (or 20?) dollar increase and that's still a bargain! More people are prolly pissed that they gave their money to an organization that clearly does not give a **** disc golf or our club.
3) Speaking of hosting the Bloom. What public park that makes most of its money on Disc Golf, zip-lining, weddings, and camping would not love to market to the 200 players (plans were for 300 in the future, dunno now) that come to their venue. What type of DG company would not take one weekend off from not charging the players (most of which pay to play there all the time, or have a season pass, already) as a way to say thank you, please come again. The answer is organization that have no creativy or hustle. Really, is there no other way to make some money on that weekend, to that audience? Really?! Maybe a field trip to Emporia might help these geniuses.
No, it's about player fees and rents for a course that only exists but for the club hosting the tournament.
To all those making money off that course, "you too are welcome." Too bad your business models collapse with only 51.5 weeks of business per year.
4) DG is a tight community, the only reason BRDGC is part of our community is because they profit from it. Never once have I see the current owner of BRDGC throw a disc (ok, fine) nor have I seen him on the course working and improving it (not fine! what are we paying for?).
-travis (former cutter of trees, collecter slash, pourer of concrete, chipper of wood, and maker of OB at Beaver Ranch)
1) FFDGC starts planning for the 2018 Bloom, so BR (the propery stewards, the land is owned by the County) and BGDC (the business that rents the ability to charge for and maintain the course) are approached in order to plan, clear dates, etc....as always.
2) In the past tourneys, money as been paid to both BR (checks of pre-determined amounts and in the erailer days, out of pure thank you. i.e. hunders of dollars) and to BRDG (in the form of them handling all AM prizes thru their pro shop i.e. several thousands of dollars). But this year the prices where different. Much higher, and the club was presented 3 options. All 3 options were discussed and turned down. This includes the option where OGs (I am one, and a *former* FFDGC board member) would get lifetime seasons. Note, the 3 options were written up by BR and/or BRDGC and turned down y FFDGC. So regarding the notion that the club expected lifetime passes as being important or conditional is bull****... they were offered and turned down, so GFYS.
And since I was not part of the discussions I can't say exactly why the options were turned down but I can guess. That the club could not afford the added costs, or more likely, did not want to.. the Bloom has had notoriously high payouts (go look) and that is because the club raises/adds a lot of cash thru sponsorship. i.e. The non DG community loves us. This added cash is also why they've been able to have CCDG out filming, perhaps that was more important to the club then paying BR/BRDGC the new fees. On behalf of FFDGC, "you're welcome, enjoy the coverage".
3) A few weeks ago the TD (and club president) posts an announcement to FB that the tourney this year would only be at one course, kinda something players should know since it always included Beaver Ranch. The announcement included the following (I asusme since the logical question would be "why not at BR?")...
Of course there were comments about change, and people not happy about it. But IIRC (check me if you wish), no club board member or the TD really got into the details as to why or taloked any ****. Regardless, pleny of people not pleased.
4) Then BRDG posted to FB their defense to FFDGC's announcement and then got their ass handed to them by the DG community. Many comments there are tame or constructive were deleted from this post BRDGC. Conventienly any there were over the top, or threatening were NOT deleted.. a clever way to paint the scene... our scene. Anyway, many have voted with their wallets and boycotting.
Disc Golf Community,
More facts and opinions:
1) Yes, FFDGC founded and built the Beaver Ranch course. Since Destination Disc (previous renters and charges of the course) has not been involved there as been zero course improvements. This is despite the 2$ course fee increase. BRDGC has been MUCH better at moving baskets on the regular, so some props to that.
2) The pay-to-play and increase in price was mention in comments, but it had nothing to do with the decision to not have the Bloom there. Beaver Ranch has been a pay course for quite some time with no outrage. Any local or regular likely buys a season pass anyway. I don't even think I heard one person bitch about the season pass cost increase.. maybe 10 (or 20?) dollar increase and that's still a bargain! More people are prolly pissed that they gave their money to an organization that clearly does not give a **** disc golf or our club.
3) Speaking of hosting the Bloom. What public park that makes most of its money on Disc Golf, zip-lining, weddings, and camping would not love to market to the 200 players (plans were for 300 in the future, dunno now) that come to their venue. What type of DG company would not take one weekend off from not charging the players (most of which pay to play there all the time, or have a season pass, already) as a way to say thank you, please come again. The answer is organization that have no creativy or hustle. Really, is there no other way to make some money on that weekend, to that audience? Really?! Maybe a field trip to Emporia might help these geniuses.
No, it's about player fees and rents for a course that only exists but for the club hosting the tournament.
To all those making money off that course, "you too are welcome." Too bad your business models collapse with only 51.5 weeks of business per year.
4) DG is a tight community, the only reason BRDGC is part of our community is because they profit from it. Never once have I see the current owner of BRDGC throw a disc (ok, fine) nor have I seen him on the course working and improving it (not fine! what are we paying for?).
-travis (former cutter of trees, collecter slash, pourer of concrete, chipper of wood, and maker of OB at Beaver Ranch)
It's just a case of a disingenuous new person coming in with a new agenda... The club is only a part of that inasmuch benefit it can bring... and bring...and bring. The new owner is a taker and a liar. I think he's entitled to be that way while still condemning it overall.
Mando is right in hindsight...I'm sure that this feels like a reasonable recourse, but these reviews are not helping anyone. We have the Wall feature and these forums to get your message out.
Really sorry about the Bloom 2018 fiasco... will the one course layout work out?
Mando is right in hindsight...I'm sure that this feels like a reasonable recourse, but these reviews are not helping anyone. We have the Wall feature and these forums to get your message out.
Really sorry about the Bloom 2018 fiasco... will the one course layout work out?
"You guys" != FFDGC. There is no cartel, and never a call to do anything. BRDGC is actually who opened the can of worms.
Also, I found nothing wrong with a vendetta against someone you don't like, at least when it comes to whether or not you give them your money. NO PROBLEM.
I was telling facts as they occurred and countering the people talking out there asses... pay-to-play, $2 increases, lifetime passes, and disc golfers being ungrateful and cheap had nothing to do with anything, consider it justified.
Also, I don't give a **** about the BR rating. Hell, half the people lowering the rating prolly originally gave artificial 5.0s because they love BR, and now they don't.
Yikes.....what a mess. This is always the risk when volunteering. I have seem similar things with park systems and municipal owned and run courses. A change in leadership bring about a new vision, budget and priorities. Staying positive and working hard to build and maintain a working relationship is really the only option. This is not always fair or easy to swallow, but few things in life are. Negative reviews, boycotts and social media campaigns are counterproductive and poorly thought out. Volunteer work entitles you to nothing. Profit and business decisions are based on monetary considerations only. Personally, boycotting nearly anything seems kind of ridiculous to me. Intentionally withholding something I love, to teach a business a lesson is usually only painful to me. I am sure, if the disc golf community continues to be a pain to the owner/operator, the course will simply be lost.
I don't want to seem unsympathetic, because I understand the frustration. But, change is inevitable. Good luck to you Rocky Mountain disc golf nuts. I hope cooler heads can prevail and BR can continue to operate and be appreciated by many golfers in the future.
I don't want to seem unsympathetic, because I understand the frustration. But, change is inevitable. Good luck to you Rocky Mountain disc golf nuts. I hope cooler heads can prevail and BR can continue to operate and be appreciated by many golfers in the future.
I'd think this would get the point across more than anything. But maybe that's what the new owners are really going for...get the club completely out of the picture.
I'd say when this issue first popped up my reaction was that it was just another example of entitled, angry disc golfers. Having now seen how the transition was handled and how the (unilateral) "negotiations" surrounding hosting The Bloom progressed, I can totally see where the disc golfers are coming from and would similarly be frustrated were I ever in that situation.
As to the boycott, while posting the reviews certainly puts the club in a bad light, I have no problem personally with a boycott; it's the whole point of free market consumerism. Don't like what someone's doing, don't buy their product or use their service. If enough people do that, the product/service provider either changes or collapses, and a new provider rises in their place.
As to the boycott, while posting the reviews certainly puts the club in a bad light, I have no problem personally with a boycott; it's the whole point of free market consumerism. Don't like what someone's doing, don't buy their product or use their service. If enough people do that, the product/service provider either changes or collapses, and a new provider rises in their place.
