Definition of the word Stable

[Meillo]

The problem of the wording comes from the definition of the property itself. The ``stability'' property has one axis, but it has two directions: ``understable'' to the one side and ``overstable'' to the other, with ``stable'' in the middle. Such a system is awkward, because you cannot measure with a single term. Instead you have to only use the word ``understable'' if you talk about values on the one side (i.e. ``more understable'' and ``less understable'') and only use the word ``overstable'' when you talk about values on the other side (i.e. ``less overstabel'' and ``more overstable''), whereas you use the word ``stable'' only when you mean ``close to the middle''. But you may never call one understable disc more overstable when it is still on the understable side. This system does not match the mind model for property measurement on a single axis. Actually, there is no single axis, but it's rather three separate properties, that are connected, laying on three axis, which happen to be all on top of each other. This does not match the idea of one single ``stability'' property. Actually, it should be the ``overstable/understable/straight-stable properties''.

Or, if we want to go with the other school of thought, we would call it the ``stability property'' with discs having positive or negative values, or being around zero. In this case, we can talk about ``more stable''.

This thread is about the question which school of thought is the prefered one.


... still ignoring, that stability is not one value on a single (or three overlaying) axis, but a combination of at least the two properties ``resistance to high-speed turn'' and ``amount of low-speed fade''.

 

[McCready]

Stable to me is a disc that is resistant to turning. Something you can throw as hard as you want and you know it will go straight. These are also the discs you want to build your bag around.

This is my take as well. A stable disc disc has little or no turn unless there is a stiff headwind, and a reliable fade.

 

[Streets]

There used to be flame wars on this topic...what has happened to DGCR!?

 

[thrembo]

There used to be flame wars on this topic...what has happened to DGCR!?

The flame wars are in the spoiler threads now.:|

 

[mmblink86]

There used to be flame wars on this topic...what has happened to DGCR!?

them youngins got off our lawns, stayed off, and let us wither away while they created their own discgolfpark across the street for team challenges (that, as an entry prerequisite, require all players to throw overstable plasticz only).

 

[Meillo]

Dave Feldberg in his blog mentioned the story, when the whole card was throwing overstable drivers into the headwind, Run Russell threw a Comet to park the hole for the win.

 

[Ryan C]

Some discs are going to resist turning when thrown with any human arm speed. That doesn't mean that if the Hulk threw the disc it would still resist turning. So talking about stability as an absolute is silly from a physics point of view. We can only talk about the resistance to turning as a spectrum. "More stable," "less stable," etc. are the most meaningful ways to discuss discs.

Understable and overstable are very imprecise terms to loosely signify a disc's rough position on the stability spectrum.

That's not even to mention that flight isn't as simple as that. Some discs, for example, turn a lot and also fade a lot when they slow down, while others turn less and fade less. So which is more overstable? It depends completely on how fast the disc in flying at the moment. There is no absolutely correct answer to that question.

You can use whatever terms you like, as long as it has meaning to your audience. If I have two Destroyers and I say one is more stable than the other, I think most everyone realizes that I'm saying one turns less and fades more than the other. They would understand the same thing if I said one Destroyer was "beefier" than the other. The answer to OP's questions is really moot as long as we know the audience we're speaking to.

 

[CodMan]

What do you guys think is the proper way to use the word stable in disc golf?

To me it means the disc will more or less be straight, not overstable or understable. But maybe I'm wrong.

All words are meaningless without context. Good luck holding anyone to a single definition of anything. We all have biases that create a subjective perception of the world. Use the phrasing that gets your point across. Stable is a place to keep your horses.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Here we go again...:|

 

[BogeyNoMore]

opcorn:

 

[ru4por]

All words are meaningless without context. Good luck holding anyone to a single definition of anything. We all have biases that create a subjective perception of the world. Use the phrasing that gets your point across. Stable is a place to keep your horses.

Perhaps, but we all absolutely know what par means.

 

[Hampstead]

Lamp (I love)

 

[GripEnemy]

Do I finish my Rube or does this thread die again tonight? Or both? Decisions...

Also, Are neutral mids pointless?

 

[oldmandiscer]

Stable meaning straight doesn't mean anything to me as there are too many variables. I like to think stable as resistance to turn. The more stable or stability it has the more resistance to turn and yes it will fly straight as long as you are throwing it fast enough.

If you say disc x lets say Stingray is stable meaning straight. What is that telling me? Nothing. How fast do you throw? How clean is your technique? What elevation? How far? What angle? FH or BH?

Straight means nothing to me. But if you say disc Y (ROC) is more stable (meaning resistant to turning) then disc X (Stingray) then OK, I can gather some useful information as your variables do not matter as much anymore.

If you want to use stable as straight, just say straight and explain your reasonings.

 

[Bogey B.O.B.]

DONE

 

[GripEnemy]

I think what a lot of people mix up saying is more OVERstable a la the Drone. People call it "more stable" than a Roc and it's annoying.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Innovas definition is lacking however. What is stable = straight for one person Eagle McMahon won't be stable = straight for my 5 year old Nephew.

My 5 year old Nephew would call a Stingray Stable while Eagle would call his Max as Stable. Now which disc is actually stable = straight? Are both discs straight for most of their flight? Sure. But if Eagle wants to recommend stable discs I wouldn't look to him for advice for a straight disc. Assuming you don't know he throws 80 mph.

So saying stable as straight is a very poor way of communicating unless you add in all the other variables.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

That is borderline strawman. By that logic there is no way to describe any disc at all.

Stable is a great word to use, but you have to know your audience. I highly doubt even Eagle calls a Max stable rather than overstable. Even with huge power it is going to finish hard left. Stable, is resistant to turn. What some people call Stable might fly understable to others but then its a conversation. It is like anything a starting point to talk about the disc.

 

[Bogey B.O.B.]

Relative to speed... if you find that it takes a -1 to fly 0 for you, just add 1 to the common rating.

Right hand back hand
Over stable = left
Stable = straight
Under stable = right

Yes, most instances where people say "more stable" they should be saying, more over stable. This includes the well-known commentators.

Maybe someday we will all be on the same page.

 

[Bogey B.O.B.]

Just to put it out there, it's not patent pending, it's reverse straddle.

Ya feel me?