DGPT: 2021 Ledgestone Insurance Open Aug 5-8

[gammaxgoblin]

So Im curious about yalls interpretation of why PMB struggled so much with NWB course? Im only about 7 holes into R2F9 but my initial impression is that he is trying to hit the narrow pure lines high high speed stuff instead of dialing his aggression back a couple notches? I mean in a nutshell he isnt hitting his lines, but they are incredibly demanding lines hole after hole.

Im also seeing now that his putting is just off

 

[rjnoodlearm]

This is great to watch.

So Im curious about yalls interpretation of why PMB struggled so much with NWB course? Im only about 7 holes into R2F9 but my initial impression is that he is trying to hit the narrow pure lines high high speed stuff instead of dialing his aggression back a couple notches? I mean in a nutshell he isnt hitting his lines, but they are incredibly demanding lines hole after hole.

I think you are right. Most courses allow McBeth to play "his game" because "his game" is so multifaceted and uniformly at a high level. If he is off a bit in one area he can make up for it in other ways. This course is an almost unprecedented different animal and it appears to me that Paul is failing to make the right adjustment(s) in how he attacks it. I am very interested in how he does in the final round.

I think this type course is the direction the pro game needs to go. This is exciting to watch as opposed to most courses where the winner is determined by who gets the most birdies/eagles and there are maybe 2 or 3 holes where some separation is likely to occur.

Having said that, I think this course (and its concept) still needs further evaluation and fine tuning. The rough is a bit too rough. Being 20 feet off the fairway shouldn't condemn you to making multiple little doink throws to get back to daylight.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

It'll be interesting to hear what the players' have to say about it, after the tournament. What about it they thought worked, and what didn't.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Northwoods is tough to watch live, in real time.

The because of the back ups and delays from the course's difficulty, I find myself nodding off for a few seconds, then waking up, wondering what I missed.


Side note: Paige Pierce has her own idea of "scoring separation."

 

[Ryan P.]

"All I'm saying is that you can't make the comparison with ratings to courses with such different SSAs."

Ok I guess, but you absolutely should be able to. Comparing different data sets is one of the basic tasks the field of statistics routinely completes.

But of course, don't want to go down this rabbit hole, and at the end of the day it isn't a huge deal if the RR isn't quite accurate. :thmbup:

yeah, we should be able to, and the way the current rating system is setup, that won't happen. With that said, I think everyone can agree that Klein's round yesterday is one of a kind.

 

[Ryan P.]

I think you are right. Most courses allow McBeth to play "his game" because "his game" is so multifaceted and uniformly at a high level. If he is off a bit in one area he can make up for it in other ways. This course is an almost unprecedented different animal and it appears to me that Paul is failing to make the right adjustment(s) in how he attacks it. I am very interested in how he does in the final round.

I think this type course is the direction the pro game needs to go. This is exciting to watch as opposed to most courses where the winner is determined by who gets the most birdies/eagles and there are maybe 2 or 3 holes where some separation is likely to occur.

Having said that, I think this course (and its concept) still needs further evaluation and fine tuning. The rough is a bit too rough. Being 20 feet off the fairway shouldn't condemn you to making multiple little doink throws to get back to daylight.

So many good thoughts here rj noodles. I've been thinking a lot about where pro tour courses should go, and I think more of these courses would be great. I don't think we should let go of the courses where the 1050 boys expect to shoot -12, but I thoroughly enjoy seeing courses like these destroy the pros. I think it also keeps viewers engaged until the last few holes knowing that (almost) any hole can produce a 3 stroke swing. But there's almost no chance of recovery. If someone is in the rough (sometimes even just 7-8 feet into the rough), the best play is often to pitch out. That's boring to watch. I'd much rather watch someone attempt to thread a needle and either succeed or put themselves into a worse position. Both outcomes are entertaining to the viewer. Additionally, the option makes for better golf for the golfer (assuming that more options = better golf).

 

[Ryan P.]

It'll be interesting to hear what the players' have to say about it, after the tournament. What about it they thought worked, and what didn't.

For sure. I'd be even more interested in what they in a month. I've found that a day after playing a tough course for the first time, my evaluation of it is usually skewed based on how I played. This is even more true on penal courses, where a bad shot is punished without the option for recovery. But after I've had some time to separate how I played from how the course is designed, I'm able to give more objective opinions.

 

[glassila]

Northwoods is tough to watch live, in real time.

The because of the back ups and delays from the course's difficulty, I find myself nodding off for a few seconds, then waking up, wondering what I missed.

I agree, whether in person or filmed, not a good course for watching disc golf.

Too many "shots" of a player throwing out of the bush in which you don't even see the player, just the disc flying out. And a lot of time the disc doesn't even make it out.

 

[nothinbuttree]

So Im curious about yalls interpretation of why PMB struggled so much with NWB course? Im only about 7 holes into R2F9 but my initial impression is that he is trying to hit the narrow pure lines high high speed stuff instead of dialing his aggression back a couple notches? I mean in a nutshell he isnt hitting his lines, but they are incredibly demanding lines hole after hole.

I think the answer is comparing his approach with Drew Gibson's. Drew pretty much used his Buzz on most of the holes, including 2nd shots. Even when he missed a line, he didn't go 50' into the deep stuff. Drew would be running away with this even if his putting was as good as Ricky or Chris's. Especially round 2 (didn't watch 3 yet).

Then, when Paul did find himself in the deep stuff, he never seemed to 'take his medicine', instead trying to save par or even birdie. This course just doesn't allow that. 3rd round seemed to be more of the same.

Course 2, Paul 0.

Now why Paul was consistently missing his lines? IDK. He did go with higher speed stuff on many holes, so if the speed is just a little off (not full committing?) the shot will hyzer out left early, which I did notice several times.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

This weather delay might help the lead card.
KK's been en Fuego

 

[txmxer]

So Im curious about yalls interpretation of why PMB struggled so much with NWB course? Im only about 7 holes into R2F9 but my initial impression is that he is trying to hit the narrow pure lines high high speed stuff instead of dialing his aggression back a couple notches? I mean in a nutshell he isnt hitting his lines, but they are incredibly demanding lines hole after hole.

IMO his expectations were too high and he was too aggressive. Extremely unusual, but he was mentally shot before the end of round 2.

This is a Discraft sponsored event and I'm sure that factored in to his mentality. Lot of second and third place finishes maybe frustrating him as well.

We've seen Rick do a really good job of taking what the course gives him this year—I.e., not making a mistake in to a double type situation.

 

[txmxer]

Not sure where the course is, but these storms look significant and like they will last a while. Klein might get a win without finishing today.

 

[RistoS]

Klein might get a win without finishing today.

Today's round will be cancelled if they're unable to finish.

 

[nothinbuttree]

Is it me, or is trying to cram 160 MPO participants into a 4 day event WAY too ambitious? I mean weather delays happen in IL in August...Even if its only a 2 hour delay, then darkness comes in to play.

Is there no way they would/could finish tomorrow? Idlewild is only a several hour drive away...

 

[jcf5083]

Today's round will be cancelled if they're unable to finish.

I can't remember the last time a final round was cancelled with a tie. Co-champions?

 

[brutalbrutus]

How does it work if two guys are tied in a weather shortened event... Are they Co-champions or is there some sort of tiebreaker in the rules?

 

[swhite]

How does it work if two guys are tied in a weather shortened event... Are they Co-champions or is there some sort of tiebreaker in the rules?

I think they go into a tie breaking dance off.

Ooh child. Things are gonna get easier.

 

[brutalbrutus]

What time does it get dark in Peoria? All they got to do is have the lead card finish hole 13, right? They might have around 1:45min or so depending on if they get any lightning on the tail end of the storm... As long as the course is playable, they can get 9 holes in Especially since they only have to play one those long backup holes, 13. The waits on 14 and 18 are just as bad as 13.

 

[nothinbuttree]

What time does it get dark in Peoria? All they got to do is have the lead card finish hole 13, right? They might have around 1:45min or so depending on if they get any lightning on the tail end of the storm... As long as the course is playable, they can get 9 holes in.

I think its quite possible the weather is going to poo poo that plan. Deep red right now, heavy rain in forecast for next hour. Not sure about current lightning. But does not look good. Feel bad for KK, he was playing so well...

 

[BogeyNoMore]

How does it work if two guys are tied in a weather shortened event... Are they Co-champions or is there some sort of tiebreaker in the rules?

From the relevant portion of the completion Manual:

1.07, Suspension of Play (Paragraph J)

All suspended rounds shall be completed, unless conditions exist that make it impossible. If such conditions exist, the results shall be final as of the last completed round as long as the necessary round requirements are met. (Refer to PDGA Mid-Event Suspension and Cancellation Policy).

1.09, Ties (Paragraph D2):

If a sudden-death playoff cannot be held during the last day of regularly scheduled rounds for the competition, the tie for first place will stand with the players declared co-champions and the cash and prizes for the ranked places split between the players. (If two players are tied for first place they split the first and second place cash or prizes.)