Great post.
To the bolded point, I want to point out that by the same token, the folks who don't care about rules can do their own share of sucking the fun out of things too. Lest anyone think you only can have fun by being lax about rules.
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Disc Golf Rule Nazi Stories
- Thread starter Harrishabitat
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Great post.
To the bolded point, I want to point out that by the same token, the folks who don't care about rules can do their own share of sucking the fun out of things too. Lest anyone think you only can have fun by being lax about rules.
chrishysell
* Ace Member *
I carry a rule book
Great post.
To the bolded point, I want to point out that by the same token, the folks who don't care about rules can do their own share of sucking the fun out of things too. Lest anyone think you only can have fun by being lax about rules.
Absolutely.
If the person who calls the rules, even very tightly, is trying to "gain advantage", what is the person violating the rules, even slightly, doing?
My preference is to follow the rules myself, so no one has to call me on them, and for my opponents to follow the rules so I don't have to call them. I hate being put in the position of deciding whether to call a rule, because someone decided not to follow it. Luckily, the majority of the players in my division, in my area, know and comply with the rules, so it's not a big issue for any of us.
There are a few people here in WI that are known A-Holes and will call people on foot faults that do not occur so that they can get into your head and make you second guess every shot that you take.
Every time I am forced to play with them I will warn all the people on my card that they do it and just to prepare for it to happen. It happened to me the first time I had to play with them and has happened in every round with them since except for one.
They call foot faults on putting and say that you were not perfectly behind your marker that you performed a falling putt. Ive seen them on multiple occasions call people on foot faults and falling putts for tap ins.
Every time I am forced to play with them I will warn all the people on my card that they do it and just to prepare for it to happen. It happened to me the first time I had to play with them and has happened in every round with them since except for one.
They call foot faults on putting and say that you were not perfectly behind your marker that you performed a falling putt. Ive seen them on multiple occasions call people on foot faults and falling putts for tap ins.
That might fall in the category of Rules Abusers.
blackcatsmith
Double Eagle Member
I got into an argument over a falling putt during a tourney. Specifically, the player in question believed if he missed his putt he could then commit a foot fault, call himself on it, and re-putt without penalty. Rules are there to standardize play, not to provide a competitive edge.
That rule was changed recently.
Until a year or two ago he could do exactly that---provided another player would second it. (It would only work once per round, though).
Now, you can't call it on yourself.
I've yet to see someone pull off the intentional foot fault to get a freebie re-do and actually foot fault. Either the player is far enough away from the target to not know for certain they've missed the putt in time to fall (so they've already established balance) or they're so close that there's no chance they're putting enough oomph into the throw to unbalance themselves in the first place. The only way to really pull something like that off is to actually fault without knowing the result of the shot, and hope it goes unnoticed if the shot is good. Big risk to take, IMO.
Fortunately, when self-calls were allowed, a second was also required. To me, that was always enough to curtail any fake faults. Now, no self-calls are allowed so the whole thing is moot.
VictorB
* Ace Member *
Several years ago in my local ice bowl - which is not a sanctioned pdga event - an out of towner on my card was trying to make us stick to pdga rules of holeing out every hole, even if our discs were right under the basket. It's common courtesy of locals to pick up people's discs in non-sanctioned events if they are under the basket unless they state otherwise. He was the only non-local on the card. I mean, it's fine if he wanted to hole out his shots, but don't stomp on our fun tournament by being a wiener about rules to the others on your card (especially if it's not your club, not your course, etc) Our ice bowl is a just-for-fun, no money on the line tournament. Only trophy, even for 'open' divisions. All cash goes to the food bank. No reason to not be a little relaxed and just have fun playing some golf.
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It 100% is, Ive been trying to perfectly understand the rules so that if it happens again to me, I can give them a curtesy violation for doing it. But I have to get be able to figure out exactly what needs to be said and how.
How I would handle would be to start like you say you do...tell the group about the player in question to put them on their guard and to suggest that everyone keep a close eye on all footing in the circle. Then the next step would be to document any and all instances in which the player brings up footing or tries to make a call on a stance that the rest of the group sees as legal. Be overt about the documentation so the player knows you're doing it and if he asks, why you're doing it. At the end of the round, go to the TD as a group (with or without the player in question) and explain what happened and provide your documentation.
IMO, what the player is doing in calling violations where there are none and trying to get into the head of his competitors while doing it is unsportsmanlike (Section 3.3 of the Competition Manual). The key thing is that actions that can be considered unprofessional and/or unsportsmanlike are not limited to just the examples listed in the book (though I think 5 and 11 are applicable). If the TD is convinced, the player can be disqualified.
Getting to that point would probably require the situation to get quite extreme, though. I think merely the action of keeping a close eye on stance and making a point of documenting when you think the player is calling faults incorrectly should be enough to curb the behavior.
Alternatively, I'd probably make a show of asking the player if I was legal before every shot (for lining up directly behind the mark sort of things) then ask again after the throw if I was still legal. Embarrass them into not calling false violations.
DanPhillips
Newbie
In one of my first tournaments I was watching a card mate trying to putt out of a particularly nasty bush. Another card mate came over to me and whispered "that's a foot fault. I'll call him on it if he makes the putt." I stopped the player trying to putt and made sure he was doing things correctly before he threw. I couldn't believe that someone would try and take advantage of something like that.
I was also once playing AM1 on the bottom card (546' hole down a ski hill). Both the other guys on my card threw into the bush on the left. We get to where they went in and one dude starts the clock. We find one disc quick and start looking for the other. 3 seconds after he calls time on the search for his own disc, I find it. I say "We are on the last card and holding the group up behind us just play it." Nope, he slowly marches back up the mountain and throws from the tee again to the SAME spot. We had eyes on it that time and played on. I would say that the group behind us must have waited 25 minutes on the tee. I asked him after if there should have been 2 time counts because we were searching for 2 lost discs. He said "it doesn't matter"
For the most part people are good but there are always a few who try and stretch the rules in their favor or enforce the rules past common sense.
I was also once playing AM1 on the bottom card (546' hole down a ski hill). Both the other guys on my card threw into the bush on the left. We get to where they went in and one dude starts the clock. We find one disc quick and start looking for the other. 3 seconds after he calls time on the search for his own disc, I find it. I say "We are on the last card and holding the group up behind us just play it." Nope, he slowly marches back up the mountain and throws from the tee again to the SAME spot. We had eyes on it that time and played on. I would say that the group behind us must have waited 25 minutes on the tee. I asked him after if there should have been 2 time counts because we were searching for 2 lost discs. He said "it doesn't matter"
For the most part people are good but there are always a few who try and stretch the rules in their favor or enforce the rules past common sense.
threevok
Double Eagle Member
This has been going on for thousands of years.
IMO, the only really objectionable thing the player did was say he'd call it "if he makes the putt". Call it or don't call it, but do it on the merits of the play, not the result. He was right to come to you like he did though, because getting a second on the call (whether needed or not) is always a good idea.
But you also did the right thing stopping the thrower and having him correct himself before he makes the shot. Good on you for that.
I'm a little confused with all the pronouns. Was the player who had to troop up the hill and re-throw the one who was insisting on the penalty, or was it the other player in your group? If it was the affected player insisting taking the penalty and re-throw, I don't see what the issue is. The group waiting on the tee doesn't matter. What place you are all in in the standings doesn't matter either. Playing it correctly should be the goal no matter what.
If the call that the disc was lost was made, it was made. You don't undo the call if the disc is then found before the next throw is made. Again, if that was the affected player insisting on being properly penalized, good for him.
Or at least if you're going to play sanctioned tournaments, familiarize yourself with the rules, whether you like them or not.
I didn't read the entire thread word-for-word, but most disagreements could be quickly and easily resolved if both sides have a solid grasp on the rules.
I've had rule disputes on the course before, it happens. Even people who understand the rules can misinterpret them sometimes. I've done it. But when it happens, if you can calmly explain the correct interpretation, and have a rule book handy for reference, you won't feel the need to go online to complain.
DanPhillips
Newbie
The guy called the penalty on himself. I guess its good on him but I think there needs to be some consideration for the group behind. The point of putting a timer on a lost disc in play is to keep the pace of play up is it not? Climbing back up a mountain and re teeing does the opposite
Yes, the point of the timer is to keep up pace of play, but the rule also requires the re-tee. So why is one aspect of the rule important but not the other, even if you think they're contradictory?
Your issue isn't really with the player playing by the rules, it's with the rule itself. Or perhaps with the course design not providing a drop zone alternative. Or perhaps with the whole group, yourself included, for not having the forethought to have both players who threw into the shule making provisional throws in case of a lost disc and saving the time that way.
You have to play the rules as written. He did that correctly.
There's a tournament I play in VT on a ski hill. For that event, the TD allows us to play lost discs from where they were last seen with no penalty. The woods are very thick and there are some big dropoffs when you get off the fairway. Even if you can see the disc, it can take several minutes to get to it to make a shot. So we get free relief to keep a slow round from being even slower.
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