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Fast-Filling Events

It's a big undertaking, to run a tournament. A modest grant from the PDGA isn't going to tip the scales for anyone, or at least, not enough people to make a dent in the supply.

I believe the PDGA has 2,000 sanctioned events per year, though I'm too lazy to check. $100 to each TD would be the equivalent of one extra small sponsor for them, but cost the PDGA $200,000, for which they'd have to cut something out. If TDs won't keep their rightful share of entries, they're likely to throw that $100 grant into the tournament, too.

Players aren't leaving the PDGA because they can't find events to play. If they leave, it's because they don't care to play events -- or, at least, not enough. No one can't find events to play; they just can't get into all of the events they wish, due to the demand. There are plenty of tournaments that don't fill in flash.

But if you jack up membership costs, a few will leave over that.

The math just doesn't work. People run events because (1) they're willing to or (2) they can earn money with the merch margin, disc sales, etc., like a vendor here that runs a lot of events. A modest supplement from the PDGA would be welcome, but wouldn't materially make the decision for a lot of people to run a lot more events.

Just let the supply catch up with the demand, as more people are willing to run events, and we accept more events being run closer geographically. One day we'll have divisional tournaments; right now we have a few, for women or juniors or older players. Maybe one day there'll be a Novice tournament on one course, an Advanced tournament on another, and a MP40 on another, in the same area. Instead of everyone trying to offer 27 different divisions in the same event.
 
DavidSauls said:
It's a big undertaking, to run a tournament. A modest grant from the PDGA isn't going to tip the scales for anyone, or at least, not enough people to make a dent in the supply.

I believe the PDGA has 2,000 sanctioned events per year, though I'm too lazy to check. $100 to each TD would be the equivalent of one extra small sponsor for them, but cost the PDGA $200,000, for which they'd have to cut something out. If TDs won't keep their rightful share of entries, they're likely to throw that $100 grant into the tournament, too.

Players aren't leaving the PDGA because they can't find events to play. If they leave, it's because they don't care to play events -- or, at least, not enough. No one can't find events to play; they just can't get into all of the events they wish, due to the demand. There are plenty of tournaments that don't fill in flash.

But if you jack up membership costs, a few will leave over that.

The math just doesn't work. People run events because (1) they're willing to or (2) they can earn money with the merch margin, disc sales, etc., like a vendor here that runs a lot of events. A modest supplement from the PDGA would be welcome, but wouldn't materially make the decision for a lot of people to run a lot more events.

Just let the supply catch up with the demand, as more people are willing to run events, and we accept more events being run closer geographically. One day we'll have divisional tournaments; right now we have a few, for women or juniors or older players. Maybe one day there'll be a Novice tournament on one course, an Advanced tournament on another, and a MP40 on another, in the same area. Instead of everyone trying to offer 27 different divisions in the same event.
Click to expand...



It depends in your area as to events being held, maybe in your area you have a tournament every week? That's not true for all of the country at all though and the entire point of the PDGA is to PLAY in tournaments.

"We don't have enough tournaments so why be a member?"

"The tournaments I wanted to play sold out in 2 minutes, now I'm pissed off and won't rejoin the PDGA."

These are real world problems.

So you can either raise the price per event or create more events. How do you create more events? We need more TD's. Why don't we have more? Because for many it's not worth it to run it (for the good of the game) or to see their friends have fun. So then you need to incentivize people and the easiest way is to ensure that they get X amount per player guaranteed.

As far as the math, you don't know because that's a hypothetical number as it could be much more based on how many events the avg PDGA member plays. Maybe an extra "$100" per event per TD won't matter to you, but to others it certainly might and it certainly could be more based on a large event. 150 players at 2 bucks is 300 dollars.

I think the PDGA has a responsibility to ensure that enough events are being held so members are continued to be satisfied and will continue to be members. It's an investment into themselves and the game. They'd be foolish not to consider it.
 
oldmandiscer said:
It depends in your area as to events being held, maybe in your area you have a tournament every week? That's not true for all of the country at all though and the entire point of the PDGA is to PLAY in tournaments.

"We don't have enough tournaments so why be a member?"

"The tournaments I wanted to play sold out in 2 minutes, now I'm pissed off and won't rejoin the PDGA."

These are real world problems.

So you can either raise the price per event or create more events. How do you create more events? We need more TD's. Why don't we have more? Because for many it's not worth it to run it (for the good of the game) or to see their friends have fun. So then you need to incentivize people and the easiest way is to ensure that they get X amount per player guaranteed.

As far as the math, you don't know because that's a hypothetical number as it could be much more based on how many events the avg PDGA member plays. Maybe an extra "$100" per event per TD won't matter to you, but to others it certainly might and it certainly could be more based on a large event. 150 players at 2 bucks is 300 dollars.

I think the PDGA has a responsibility to ensure that enough events are being held so members are continued to be satisfied and will continue to be members. It's an investment into themselves and the game. They'd be foolish not to consider it.
Click to expand...

Because it is not worth the money. The work involved would be nearly impossible to really compensate.
 
I entered a tournament in Oregon at Milo McIver in 2011. Each person was required to submit a check (remember those?) for the entry fee by a certain date, then the checks were drawn out of a hopper and if your check was picked, you were in. Unchosen checks were voided and returned. I think some tournaments in the Northwest still use that basic system, but do it electronically.
 
If we want more tournaments then make it easier for TDs to run tournaments. On the Am side: Trophy only and no player pack. I've thought about running tournaments locally but the ordering, handling, and distribution of plastic and merch looks like a huge headache. For one reason or another I've also seen TDs end up holding the bag when it comes to things like discs and other merch. No thank you.

Also loosen the minimum distance requirements between PDGA events.
 
Darkgreen said:
If we want more tournaments then make it easier for TDs to run tournaments. On the Am side: Trophy only and no player pack. I've thought about running tournaments locally but the ordering, handling, and distribution of plastic and merch looks like a huge headache. For one reason or another I've also seen TDs end up holding the bag when it comes to things like discs and other merch. No thank you.

Also loosen the minimum distance requirements between PDGA events.
Click to expand...

You can run funny money payouts if you work with a local disc retailer. That's what most do around here. No trophy, no player packs. Just gift cards.
 
oldmandiscer said:
What work?
Click to expand...

The fact that you have no idea makes me wonder why you are posing solutions to a problem, you seem to know nothing about. But....I will try..

Set up a budget
Possibly set up LLC or non profit status
Determine logistics....size/tier/am-pro/course
Contact the course to work out details and sign contract
Submit tournament dates to PDGA and state coordinator
Stump for sponsorship
Stump for volunteers
Determine player packs and payout scheme
Determine and produce art for disc/shirts
Contact disc manufacturer to place order
Contact vendors for shirts/hats/pint glasses/patches....
Contact vendor or determine and make trophies
Contact food trucks or vendor, if supplying lunch on site
Pass officials exam
Design caddy book, scorecards
Contact printer to print caddy book, score cards, art work, flyers
Get tournament set up on Disc Golf Scene
Arrange for a PayPal, Venmo and ApplePay accounts
Determine more logistics....Ace pool, CTP, side games, raffles
Procure prizes for side games/raffles
Go out and buy infrastructure for tournament....tents, tables, banners, stakes for banners,
computer, boxes for disc payouts, boards for
player cards,
Build a TD box......pencils, pens, markers, CTP flags, scorecards, airhorn, tape, masks, hand sanitizer, raffle bucket, touch up spray paint, paper, tool kit and dozens of other things to solve unpredictable problems
Meet with volunteers and set up work days the week before the tournament
Sweep/shovel/salt pads
Trim bushes
Paint putting circles
Mark OB/drop zones
Clean course
Procure equipment....banner stake pounder, garden rakes, shovels, salt, leaf rakes, loppers, pruners, gloves for volunteers
Buy and serve food and water (beer) for volunteers
Set up UDisc or PDGA scoring
Set up tournament website for electronic players meeting
Write, record and publish electronic players meeting
Training for tournament day volunteers....registration, player pack distribution...
Load cars with tournament infrastructure
Get to the course the day of the tournament and set up tents, tables, player packs and registration
Get practice baskets out
Day of course touch up....shovel/salt pads, check OB lines
Put up banners and flags
Get CTP flags, next tee signs or tee signs out to holes
Registration, problem resolution, tee assignments, rules clarification, customer service
Manage lunch and tee assignments again
Manage side games
Add scores and enter into DGS and PDGA
Payouts, CTP and ace pool
Get signs down off course and clean up course
Teardown of banners, tents, tables and stock
Load cars to take stuff back to home/storage unit

This is just off the top of my head, I am sure I have left out many tasks. Understand some of these are very labor intensive. I dare say your PDGA stipend is not going to pay for the gas used. This is only for an A/B/C tier event. DGPT or majors would be multi fold more work.
 
ru4por said:
The fact that you have no idea makes me wonder why you are posing solutions to a problem, you seem to know nothing about. But....I will try..

Set up a budget
Possibly set up LLC or non profit status
Determine logistics....size/tier/am-pro/course
Contact the course to work out details and sign contract
Submit tournament dates to PDGA and state coordinator
Stump for sponsorship
Stump for volunteers
Determine player packs and payout scheme
Determine and produce art for disc/shirts
Contact disc manufacturer to place order
Contact vendors for shirts/hats/pint glasses/patches....
Contact vendor or determine and make trophies
Contact food trucks or vendor, if supplying lunch on site
Pass officials exam
Design caddy book, scorecards
Contact printer to print caddy book, score cards, art work, flyers
Get tournament set up on Disc Golf Scene
Arrange for a PayPal, Venmo and ApplePay accounts
Determine more logistics....Ace pool, CTP, side games, raffles
Procure prizes for side games/raffles
Go out and buy infrastructure for tournament....tents, tables, banners, stakes for banners,
computer, boxes for disc payouts, boards for
player cards,
Build a TD box......pencils, pens, markers, CTP flags, scorecards, airhorn, tape, masks, hand sanitizer, raffle bucket, touch up spray paint, paper, tool kit and dozens of other things to solve unpredictable problems
Meet with volunteers and set up work days the week before the tournament
Sweep/shovel/salt pads
Trim bushes
Paint putting circles
Mark OB/drop zones
Clean course
Procure equipment....banner stake pounder, garden rakes, shovels, salt, leaf rakes, loppers, pruners, gloves for volunteers
Buy and serve food and water (beer) for volunteers
Set up UDisc or PDGA scoring
Set up tournament website for electronic players meeting
Write, record and publish electronic players meeting
Training for tournament day volunteers....registration, player pack distribution...
Load cars with tournament infrastructure
Get to the course the day of the tournament and set up tents, tables, player packs and registration
Get practice baskets out
Day of course touch up....shovel/salt pads, check OB lines
Put up banners and flags
Get CTP flags, next tee signs or tee signs out to holes
Registration, problem resolution, tee assignments, rules clarification, customer service
Manage lunch and tee assignments again
Manage side games
Add scores and enter into DGS and PDGA
Payouts, CTP and ace pool
Get signs down off course and clean up course
Teardown of banners, tents, tables and stock
Load cars to take stuff back to home/storage unit

This is just off the top of my head, I am sure I have left out many tasks. Understand some of these are very labor intensive. I dare say your PDGA stipend is not going to pay for the gas used. This is only for an A/B/C tier event. DGPT or majors would be multi fold more work.
Click to expand...

So you agree TD's need to be paid more then. I thought you were disagreeing for some reason.
 
oldmandiscer said:
So you agree TD's need to be paid more then. I thought you were disagreeing for some reason.
Click to expand...

You have no way of paying them more. If they wish to run a for profit tournament, sponsorship will have to be the way it is done. You have no part in the process, nor would the PDGA. This is never going to be more than a labor of love. So, no paying TD is not the answer to more tournaments, IMO. Unless you find several large, national sponsors.
 
ru4por said:
You have no way of paying them more. If they wish to run a for profit tournament, sponsorship will have to be the way it is done. You have no part in the process, nor would the PDGA. This is never going to be more than a labor of love. So, no paying TD is not the answer to more tournaments, IMO. Unless you find several large, national sponsors.
Click to expand...

The players pay out of their membership fees. They want more tournaments, I know I do. Do you NOT want more tournaments? Would you not be willing to pay a little more to have a greater selection of tournaments to play?

You are basically saying, you don't want to pay the TD's anymore money, even a little. That you don't want a better selection of tournaments to play. I could argue water is wet and you'd say it's dry.
 
Flex starts. Run more flex starts surrounding fast filling events. They require zero prep, zero player packs, and TD just sits back and collects cash and checks players in. There is a TD in CO that runs 5-10 flex a year, does nothing, and gets 20 bucks a pop at 100-150 people.*He literally does nothing but drink beer and check people in.

This takes the strain off regular events and has minimal time/labor commitments.
 
Norvelljeff said:
Flex starts. Run more flex starts surrounding fast filling events. They require zero prep, zero player packs, and TD just sits back and collects cash and checks players in. There is a TD in CO that runs 5-10 flex a year, does nothing, and gets 20 bucks a pop at 100-150 people.*He literally does nothing but drink beer and check people in.

This takes the strain off regular events and has minimal time/labor commitments.
Click to expand...

I'm curious, is it pick your own group flex start or is it done some other way? I'm wary of flex starts. They would seem to have the same problem as flex start leagues if you are allowed to pick your own group. I'm thinking of things like score card shenanigans and mulligans when buddies get to pick each other to throw with.
 
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