General Issues with the financial model of tournament disc golf coverage

[JTacoma03]

Perhaps currently while the demographic reach is not that vast so they (disc golf related advertisers) want to exploit every possible end user interaction and get more bang for their buck, but in the future when the video views are there, you should be able to focus more on just selling ads at higher amounts without the need to drill down so much on the social pipeline. After all when the end user comes to your (the video producer's) facebook, instagram, etc, networks, etc, that's where YOU want to engage the user for your financial benefit the most by selling merch, advertising your videos, etc, etc.

No, this just isn't the case. This is and example of a traditional ad buy, and most companies aren't interested unless the price is rock bottom. It's just not an effective ROI anymore, especially on YouTube.

I don't get what you're saying about "drill down the social pipeline" - there is no deep diving going on. It's about partnering with influencers in the space to bring an authentic touch to the message, or it's about companies paying to add value to my audience in lieu of a traditional 30sec spot saying "Hey buy this"

Perhaps the major disc golf content providers should get together with some of the bigger disc golf companies and try to get some funding to advertise your content to people (with sports interest) outside of disc golf. This would be a long term campaign, and a tax write off for everyone involved..lol.. but a way to promote the sport outside of our inner circle.

This was literally what the DGWT model is/was though, and it sounds really good but there's just not the infrastructure to support mining for outside sponsors. There's too few people and too little cash to go around. It takes months or years to land those kind of deals.

I appreciate your perspective, obviously you have experience in the industry. However, honestly (not trying to be rude) it's just an old school method that hasn't been effective in the social media content monetization space in the last few years.

The jomez stuff especially is pretty much ready for prime time and should be accepted as "legit sport's entertainment" viewing by anyone who enjoys sports.

The new catch cam guy Chris needs some work, nice dude but inexperienced. He hasn't quite figured out how to predict the disc flight and use the zoom rocker smoothly. That just comes with time, there's no substitute for that experience.

The commentary also isn't ready for "prime time" - it's more like Nate and Jerm's podcast - they talk in past tense, describe and explain what has happened instead of building the suspense and being 'in the moment', etc.

It's a YouTube based style meant for the inner circle, and IMO taking it out of that element will kill it.

 

[JTacoma03]

Now if you're talking about Basket Dash - now that's a primetime ready product.

 

[DiscFifty]

I appreciate your perspective, obviously you have experience in the industry. However, honestly (not trying to be rude) it's just an old school method that hasn't been effective in the social media content monetization space in the last few years.

No prob, I appreciate the replies. For this discussion I was just focusing on how a video producer (regardless of area of interest) makes money. And I still say on that level..it's simply about the number of views. I remember contacting a few youtube publishers (who have millions of subscribers, etc) a few years ago to inquire about placing ads in their videos. The price was just about the same as buying a 30 second spot on tv. lol..

The new catch cam guy Chris needs some work, nice dude but inexperienced. He hasn't quite figured out how to predict the disc flight and use the zoom rocker smoothly. That just comes with time, there's no substitute for that experience.

The commentary also isn't ready for "prime time" - it's more like Nate and Jerm's podcast - they talk in past tense, describe and explain what has happened instead of building the suspense and being 'in the moment', etc.

As I've said before.. I'm not a fan of that style of banter either, same with the CCDG guys. I 100% agree they need to build the suspense better and approach more as if they are viewing it live. We need the Jim Nantz of disc golf. Hey..isn't that supposed to be you?

 

[araytx]

No prob, I appreciate the replies. For this discussion I was just focusing on how a video producer (regardless of area of interest) makes money. And I still say on that level..it's simply about the number of views. I remember contacting a few youtube publishers (who have millions of subscribers, etc) a few years ago to inquire about placing ads in their videos. The price was just about the same as buying a 30 second spot on tv. lol..



As I've said before.. I'm not a fan of that style of banter either, same with the CCDG guys. I 100% agree they need to build the suspense better and approach more as if they are viewing it live. We need the Jim Nantz of disc golf. Hey..isn't that supposed to be you?

Nah, it's me. But as much as inquire, I can't get a sniff.

 

[JTacoma03]

No prob, I appreciate the replies. For this discussion I was just focusing on how a video producer (regardless of area of interest) makes money. And I still say on that level..it's simply about the number of views. I remember contacting a few youtube publishers (who have millions of subscribers, etc) a few years ago to inquire about placing ads in their videos. The price was just about the same as buying a 30 second spot on tv. lol..



As I've said before.. I'm not a fan of that style of banter either, same with the CCDG guys. I 100% agree they need to build the suspense better and approach more as if they are viewing it live. We need the Jim Nantz of disc golf. Hey..isn't that supposed to be you?

I definitely appreciate the civil discourse and your insight.


...and I do love doing commentary, but the pros keep trying to take the jobs we created, lol.

 

[Airfishey]

Now if you're talking about Basket Dash - now that's a primetime ready product.

Can't believe I've never seen that before. Definitely ready for prime time :thmbup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8T-B4d6oH4

As for the rest of the discussion/debate, it does seem like a difficult model to sustain, but I have no experience or insight into their business. I will say that I attempted to buy some Jomez merch on their shop this weekend while watching some Memorial coverage. Unfortunately, what I wanted to purchase was out of stock, so I will have to wait a little bit longer for my purchase.

 

[JTacoma03]

Can't believe I've never seen that before. Definitely ready for prime time :thmbup: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8T-B4d6oH4

As for the rest of the discussion/debate, it does seem like a difficult model to sustain, but I have no experience or insight into their business. I will say that I attempted to buy some Jomez merch on their shop this weekend while watching some Memorial coverage. Unfortunately, what I wanted to purchase was out of stock, so I will have to wait a little bit longer for my purchase.

I came back to say - I'm getting caught up on coverage from the weekend, and lots of the things I was critical of have already been improved over Vegas. Figured I should update the record, those boys are doing a damn fine job.

Nate and Jerm are doing a better job letting the cut breathe and letting suspense build too. Kudos around.

 

[SonicGuy]

People donate an aggregate hundreds of thousands of dollars to watch other people play Vidya. And those are donations, not fees. The problem with disc golf financing is purely in the demographic. Disc golfers are poor white trash with a historic culture of freeloading. You can't squeeze a dime out of them.

 

[NegaSnapples]

People donate an aggregate hundreds of thousands of dollars to watch other people play Vidya. And those are donations, not fees. The problem with disc golf financing is purely in the demographic. Disc golfers are poor white trash with a historic culture of freeloading. You can't squeeze a dime out of them.

Haha, better hope Lyle doesn't see this. He'll post a wall rant about disc golfers being better people than any other demo.

 

[davetherocketguy]

People donate an aggregate hundreds of thousands of dollars to watch other people play Vidya. And those are donations, not fees. The problem with disc golf financing is purely in the demographic. Disc golfers are poor white trash with a historic culture of freeloading. You can't squeeze a dime out of them.

I'm starting to see a shift in that demographic here locally. I think the days of dg'ers being dominated by "freeloaders" are starting to disappear.

 

[NegaSnapples]

I'm starting to see a shift in that demographic here locally. I think the days of dg'ers being dominated by "freeloaders" are starting to disappear.

Idk, I still see a ton of people balk the idea of pay to play courses. Even if it's $5. Now that's freeloading.

Different regions will have different tendencies. But overall, I think people get into disc golf precisely because it's free to play.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Idk, I still see a ton of people balk the idea of pay to play courses. Even if it's $5. Now that's freeloading.

Different regions will have different tendencies. But overall, I think people get into disc golf precisely because it's free to play.

Of course. I'm not saying that there will never be freeloaders...I'm just not seeing as many of them. I'm seeing a lot more of those pricey Zuca/Ridgeroller/DD carts all over the place. Also I'm having a fairly easy time selling memberships for my brand new DG club.

And when you pitch the idea of playing disc golf to newbies as "Look how cheap discs are compared to golf clubs" it's kind of a double edged sword. On the one hand its an easy sell to get a lot of people in the sport but on the other it attracts the freeloaders.

 

[Lazerface]

The sad reality is that millions of people will tune in to watch other people play video games and they will donate a ton of money doing it. Disc golf is interesting to disc golfers. There are just many more millions of people into video games. If the amount of casual disc golfers was even a fraction of the amount of gamers, the disc golf media could make a living via donations for sure. I think it's more of a numbers issue than demographics, although I can't deny what I tend to see out on the course, but I have observed a shift in recent years for sure.

I think the media company merch is a good idea. It's the kind of thing that works in our tiny niche consumer culture. Nobody gives two ****s about who is filming any given sporting event, but disc golf is different. We all want it to grow (almost all) and we care about CCDG/JOMEZ/SB. I think there is a serious amount of gratitude for what the media companies are doing. It's not just about appreciating the content and being able to watch disc golf. It's grass roots and consumers want to see these companies succeed and value what they are doing for the sport.

I suppose the two main paths to revenue are 1) Youtube Views and 2)contributions/donations (like Patreon). Both of these things require very large audiences, which don't exist relatively speaking. Like it or not, the majority of users will not donate, and that is across the board, not just disc golf. I listen to some huge podcasts that have millions of listeners and have heard less than 1% of the audience actually contributes via Patreon or other method. I think the Media companies working hard to brand themselves and offer up merch is a good path for adding to the bottom line. And come to think of it - the top 3 all have pretty sweet logos too.

 

[SonicGuy]

In my probably incorrect opinion, the problem with disc golf is the inability to cash in on the individual characters that make up the sport. Twitch gamers develop rapport with the audience, their personality is conveyed directly to the end consumer. I don't think that people are paying to watch any old a$$hat play games, they are paying to watch a specific eceleb because they somehow identify with them.

The first operation to successfully brand the individual disc golfers in a compelling light will be the last man standing and make some money. Right now we have Innova promoting individuals, but even then they are promoting a pretty boring, unattractive, poorly dressed "McBeast". I think when deciding which golfers to endorse we need to think who would last the longest on Big Brother. We need a dozen Nikkos with constant attention on their personal quirks with some disc golf on the side.

 

[shakatak]

Right now we have Innova promoting individuals, but even then they are promoting a pretty boring, unattractive, poorly dressed "McBeast".

Do people really think McBeth is poorly dressed?

 

[Lazerface]

In my probably incorrect opinion, the problem with disc golf is the inability to cash in on the individual characters that make up the sport. Twitch gamers develop rapport with the audience, their personality is conveyed directly to the end consumer. I don't think that people are paying to watch any old a$$hat play games, they are paying to watch a specific eceleb because they somehow identify with them.

The first operation to successfully brand the individual disc golfers in a compelling light will be the last man standing and make some money. Right now we have Innova promoting individuals, but even then they are promoting a pretty boring, unattractive, poorly dressed "McBeast". I think when deciding which golfers to endorse we need to think who would last the longest on Big Brother. We need a dozen Nikkos with constant attention on their personal quirks with some disc golf on the side.

I agree to some extent. Eagle is like a microcosm within our media culture of what you're talking about. He has his Vlogs and other social media stuff and has built an audience based off his identity and it's not so much about the disc golf. But again, I'm pretty sure his entire base is disc golfers and I would assume the entire audience for gamers is in fact gamers. We just have a much smaller pool.

For the record, I kept hearing about Twitch and had no clue what it was so I checked some stuff out on Youtube. It was mind blowing. I lost faith in America, the world, and man kind itself. It has to be an 80/20 ratio of teenagers/creepy old men using Twitch.

 

[Hampstead]

I'm glad I have no clue what Twitch is.

 

[Rob Martin]

The current model must be working better than the previous when we had to wait and buy DVDs.

I miss Billy Crump's commentary.

 

[JTacoma03]

I'm starting to see a shift in that demographic here locally. I think the days of dg'ers being dominated by "freeloaders" are starting to disappear.

Totally agree. 9 years ago when I started in this sport? Total cheapskates dominated the demo. Today people are spending $400 on a backpack specialized for their gear.

The market is evolving as it should.

I'm glad I have no clue what Twitch is.

Twitch is amazing, and without it we wouldn't have had the mass popularization of livestreams. The simple, nuance-crushing way of looking at it is - YouTube, but geared for livestreaming. People play video games, music, board games, host talk shows, yes even some disc golf is on there too.

It also has the P2P monetary/tip/donation system built right in. If disc golf had sprung up on Twitch instead of YouTube we'd probably be further along in our development from a media sense.

It evolved from a company called Justin.tv which was (illegally) hosting individuals' streams of paywalled events like NFL games, UFC fights, etc.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Do people really think McBeth is poorly dressed?

I don't think so. Dude keeps it tight and trim.