Growth of DG?

[RK311]

There are many threads about the growth of our game/sport. I am very happy with the current level of participation, recognition, course construction, etc. Others would like something different. I think there is enough conversation in other threads about pros and cons, but would like to know how the majority of DGCR members feel.

 

[DavidSauls]

Are you happy with the current level (no more growth), or the current growth rate?

You seem to say you like a hybrid---the current level of participation (no growth), but course construction (growth).

 

[bradharris]

I feel like we're hitting a sweet spot where there are plenty of options to play without being overly crowded. Granted, I still have to drive a bit to get to a course, but when I get there, I can usually walk right to the first tee and go. No waiting, no paying, no nonsense.

 

[RK311]

Are you happy with the current level (no more growth), or the current growth rate?

You seem to say you like a hybrid---the current level of participation (no growth), but course construction (growth).

I'm happy with the state of the game as it is presently. Courses will be built and courses will be pulled, players will be born and players will die.

 

[The Hammer]

The quality of courses where I live is pretty weak. Growing the game, I believe, will improve the quality and quantity of courses in my area.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

I dont think we will ever get over the hump.

 

[ElementZ]

DG in Madison is, in my opinion, very overpopulated. I've never played a full round without having to wait on a group at some point or another. However, in all the other places I've played, this isn't a problem. I think there's tremendous room for growth outside the US, so I voted Grow.

 

[BlueBells]

Played competitive sports with substantial monetary backing for all of my life and wish this sport could rise to the level of those. There is more than enough public interest and availability for people to get interested in the game to grow it to a new level of outside interest.

Though I guess thinking about the word "grow" might be the wrong idea. I think the word "evolve" probably better defines what I'd want the game to do.

 

[The Hammer]

FWIW, I share 3Putt's opinion that I don't think it will ever "explode in popularity" like so many people seem to think. At least, not under the current structure. Frisbee sports are the very definition of a niche activity.

 

[filobedo]

Hopefully no one burns down my house for posting this but here is my perspective for growth. I preface with, this is only my opinion which may increase discussion and not to start a firestorm.

Growth is more likely to happen with funding and exposure. I know I will get blasted for this but I would like to see fees raised for PDGA memberships and tournaments (not significantly). I say this because I keep seeing people indicating that the sport is stagnant because of the lack of television coverage. A portion of these fees from each membership and player at each sanctioned tournament could go into a reserve fund that could be used to pay for a national broadcast of the USDGC, Worlds, HOF Classic or similar tournaments for an hour on a cable channel initially such as the El Rey Network or ESPN 2 (not to be shown once a year but several times a year. I am aware there was something similar in 2013 but I think McFly So High or Billy Crump could do a great job on camera and commentary and relate it to the novice or someone with no exposure to the sport). El Rey currently appears to be showing a loop of great coverage of surfing, skating, kiteboarding, etc. from the early 2000's and I think disc golf and the network would benefit with new coverage. I also think sites like the MPORA website are fantastic and does not isolate one sport the way disc golf seems to be isolated out of outdoor/action sports. I think inclusion in sites like this would also benefit. If the sport ends up on TV, I think having viewing parties at local restaurants and bars during primetime or happy hour on Fridays and weekends would help but the cost would be significant.

I also think the mentality that every am playing in an event needs to receive a players pack as well as half of the am field should receive a payout at the majority of events needs to be reassessed (this does not mean do away with all of it). Disc golf is one of the only sports I have ever been involved with that gives payouts or merchandise to ams that did not place in the top 5 (the funds saved on payouts and player packs could also help fund a reserve fund for television coverage). More Trophy only events may deter players for a while but could also increase the reserve fund.

I also think there should be a peer analysis type study (this may have happened but I am not aware of this) of other sports similar in structure (e.g., local surfing contest run by numerous volunteers that may wear several hats over the weekend including sanctioning, judging, etc.). With a sport such as surfing, many participants in contests may surf several divisions such as juniors, open, kneeboard, longboard, bodyboard, etc. and this may cost them $25 for each division over a weekend (I am aware that many of these are paid by sponsors but not all great surfers are sponsored so this is out of pocket for the love of competition and the sport). The only thing they normally win in am is a trophy, donated merchandise and lunch each day such as pizza for the $100 - $150 each participated may have paid over the weekend.

I know very little about course design other than experienced course designers know how to design courses in relation to newer players with no experience in the development of courses. I have only been playing about 8 years but over the past 3 or 4 years I have noticed many newer players designing courses. Since about 2010, I have played a few courses that appear were put in due to land being available but the design was not well thought because people with little to no experience in designing courses were involved. There is no reason to put a course in unless it will be utilized. The last thing a municipality and tax base wants to see is funds they feel were wasted on something that is not utilized such as a poorly designed course.

Encouraging aspects I noted below.

I am really encouraged by many TDs running one day events over the past few years. These make it easier for some players who may not be able to participate in a full weekend event due to other interests, responsibilities, etc. A couple of the best tournaments I played over the past couple of years were the Jersey Jam in New Brunswick, NJ and the Summer Smackdown outside of Mosinee, WI. The ams played Saturday and pros played Sunday at the Jersey Jam and pros and advanced played Saturday and other division played Sunday at the Summer Smackdown. It was really neat to see pros spotting (including a few of the top players in the world at the Jersey Jam) and help run the tournaments on the days they did not play and ams helping out on the days they did not play.

The most encouraging aspect is that it appears many new players are learning the rules and practice etiquette more than when I started which should also increase growth. I started playing traditional golf when I was around 6 years old and first started playing dg at 35. When I started in dg, I was surprised that some of the players did not fully understand some of the rules and a few did not demonstrate etiquette during casual rounds and sanctioned tournaments which are similar to traditional golf in many ways. This goes back to my first experience with weekly doubles at a club event in the South. I played a weekly doubles event about 2 weeks after I started playing in 2005 and got paired in a group with 2 great guys and 1 guy that was older that was such a jerk to me that I did not play with another club for another 6 months. My first impression to organized disc golf was that new players were not supposed to play club events much less sanctioned tournaments. I am glad I dismissed this and have had far more positive experiences from dg and met great people that I would have never known if I would have let my first experience deter me.

 

[bradharris]

Whoa, that's a lot to digest...

Hopefully no one burns down my house for posting this but here is my perspective for growth. I preface with, this is only my opinion which may increase discussion and not to start a firestorm.

Growth is more likely to happen with funding and exposure. I know I will get blasted for this but I would like to see fees raised for PDGA memberships and tournaments (not significantly). I say this because I keep seeing people indicating that the sport is stagnant because of the lack of television coverage. A portion of these fees from each membership and player at each sanctioned tournament could go into a reserve fund that could be used to pay for a national broadcast of the USDGC, Worlds, HOF Classic or similar tournaments for an hour on a cable channel initially such as the El Rey Network or ESPN 2 (not to be shown once a year but several times a year. I am aware there was something similar in 2013 but I think McFly So High or Billy Crump could do a great job on camera and commentary and relate it to the novice or someone with no exposure to the sport). El Rey currently appears to be showing a loop of great coverage of surfing, skating, kiteboarding, etc. from the early 2000's and I think disc golf and the network would benefit with new coverage. I also think sites like the MPORA website are fantastic and does not isolate one sport the way disc golf seems to be isolated out of outdoor/action sports. I think inclusion in sites like this would also benefit. If the sport ends up on TV, I think having viewing parties at local restaurants and bars during primetime or happy hour on Fridays and weekends would help but the cost would be significant.

This is completely backwards. The idea of asking the players to pay for a broadcast is silly. Generally it's the TV networks paying for the rights to broadcast an event. We're nowhere near that level yet. I think it's far more important to somehow create a better live experience before trying to get broadcasters involved.

I also think the mentality that every am playing in an event needs to receive a players pack as well as half of the am field should receive a payout at the majority of events needs to be reassessed (this does not mean do away with all of it). Disc golf is one of the only sports I have ever been involved with that gives payouts or merchandise to ams that did not place in the top 5 (the funds saved on payouts and player packs could also help fund a reserve fund for television coverage). More Trophy only events may deter players for a while but could also increase the reserve fund.

This is really up to individual TDs to decide. Most will go with what will attract the most players, and that's big players packs and nice payouts.

I also think there should be a peer analysis type study (this may have happened but I am not aware of this) of other sports similar in structure (e.g., local surfing contest run by numerous volunteers that may wear several hats over the weekend including sanctioning, judging, etc.). With a sport such as surfing, many participants in contests may surf several divisions such as juniors, open, kneeboard, longboard, bodyboard, etc. and this may cost them $25 for each division over a weekend (I am aware that many of these are paid by sponsors but not all great surfers are sponsored so this is out of pocket for the love of competition and the sport). The only thing they normally win in am is a trophy, donated merchandise and lunch each day such as pizza for the $100 - $150 each participated may have paid over the weekend.

What exactly needs to be analyzed??

I know very little about course design other than experienced course designers know how to design courses in relation to newer players with no experience in the development of courses. I have only been playing about 8 years but over the past 3 or 4 years I have noticed many newer players designing courses. Since about 2010, I have played a few courses that appear were put in due to land being available but the design was not well thought because people with little to no experience in designing courses were involved. There is no reason to put a course in unless it will be utilized. The last thing a municipality and tax base wants to see is funds they feel were wasted on something that is not utilized such as a poorly designed course.

I don't see bad course design as a bane on the sport. If it's a choice of a bad course, or no course, I'll take the bad course. I have trouble believing that course development is slowed because current courses are poorly designed.

I am really encouraged by many TDs running one day events over the past few years. These make it easier for some players who may not be able to participate in a full weekend event due to other interests, responsibilities, etc. A couple of the best tournaments I played over the past couple of years were the Jersey Jam in New Brunswick, NJ and the Summer Smackdown outside of Mosinee, WI. The ams played Saturday and pros played Sunday at the Jersey Jam and pros and advanced played Saturday and other division played Sunday at the Summer Smackdown. It was really neat to see pros spotting (including a few of the top players in the world at the Jersey Jam) and help run the tournaments on the days they did not play and ams helping out on the days they did not play.

The vast majority of tournaments are one day only. Some of the bigger ones are multiple days. There's a place for both in the sport.

The most encouraging aspect is that it appears many new players are learning the rules and practice etiquette more than when I started which should also increase growth. I started playing traditional golf when I was around 6 years old and first started playing dg at 35. When I started in dg, I was surprised that some of the players did not fully understand some of the rules and a few did not demonstrate etiquette during casual rounds and sanctioned tournaments which are similar to traditional golf in many ways. This goes back to my first experience with weekly doubles at a club event in the South. I played a weekly doubles event about 2 weeks after I started playing in 2005 and got paired in a group with 2 great guys and 1 guy that was older that was such a jerk to me that I did not play with another club for another 6 months. My first impression to organized disc golf was that new players were not supposed to play club events much less sanctioned tournaments. I am glad I dismissed this and have had far more positive experiences from dg and met great people that I would have never known if I would have let my first experience deter me.

Disc golf is still very much a leisure activity. There are plenty of people on the course who don't know the rulebook. More serious players at leagues and tournaments seem to all have at least a basic understanding of the rules.

 

[DavidSauls]

"Grow" means different things to different people, and the options should be phrased something like this:

#1---Keep disc golf at its current level, in number of players, courses, crowdedness of courses, tournaments, PDGA, etc.
#2---Continue growing disc golf course as it has been, as an participation sport. More players, more courses, more tournaments.
#3---Grow in recognition, as a spectator sport (TV, etc.)

I take this thread to be a wishlist, not an expectation. #1 can be wished for, but there's no way it's going to happen anytime in the near future. Personally, I believe #3 is extremely unlikely, though I wouldn't mind if it happened.

 

[gradus]

#2---Continue growing disc golf course as it has been, as an participation sport. More players, more courses, more tournaments.

Yes to #2.

 

[markmcc]

In spite of living in or near Austin, TX for 40+ years, I didn't discover DG until I was in my early 50's and had moved away from the area. I've played quite a few smaller rural courses and have gotten used to playing relatively quiet courses with few people around. My idea of a crowded course is having two or three other groups on an 18 hole course while I'm playing.

On a recent visit back to Austin I decided to play one of the popular courses (Circle C Metro Park) on a weekday afternoon. All I can say is "HOLY SH*T", if that is what success looks like I don't want any part of it. As I waited at the first tee there was a group on 4 guys wandering around in the fairway, without any apparent purpose. There was another group waiting on the first tee, me, and then a mother with her two young kids came up behind me and were waiting. The four dudes continued milling around and I figured out that they might have been waiting on a group to putt out, but I couldn't see the basket from where I was. After observing this for several minutes I bailed, and caught a couple of rounds at a 9-hole course on my way back home. I cannot imagine what a weekend would look like at Circle C, but the reviews indicate chaos as a definite possibility.

Maybe the answer to this is growth in the form of more courses. Or maybe it is growth in the form of P2P. But if growth manifests itself in the form of badly overcrowded public courses, then I'll take the current situation.

 

[RK311]

"Grow" means different things to different people, and the options should be phrased something like this:

#1---Keep disc golf at its current level, in number of players, courses, crowdedness of courses, tournaments, PDGA, etc.
#2---Continue growing disc golf course as it has been, as an participation sport. More players, more courses, more tournaments.
#3---Grow in recognition, as a spectator sport (TV, etc.)

I take this thread to be a wishlist, not an expectation. #1 can be wished for, but there's no way it's going to happen anytime in the near future. Personally, I believe #3 is extremely unlikely, though I wouldn't mind if it happened.

You're right. If you create a poll, I'll vote.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

I also think payout for ams is stupid. top 3 at best. Players pack is fine with me. but finishing 15th should never get you any reward. especially if its in the Rec division.

 

[Jay Dub]

I also think payout for ams is stupid. top 3 at best. Players pack is fine with me. but finishing 15th should never get you any reward. especially if its in the Rec division.

Agree. Participation trophies should be banned from all sports for all ages.

I want disc golf to grow the way the sport/activity has been. More courses. The professional side of the sport won't catch up (if ever) for decades.

 

[namar]

In spite of living in or near Austin, TX for 40+ years, I didn't discover DG until I was in my early 50's and had moved away from the area. I've played quite a few smaller rural courses and have gotten used to playing relatively quiet courses with few people around. My idea of a crowded course is having two or three other groups on an 18 hole course while I'm playing.

On a recent visit back to Austin I decided to play one of the popular courses (Circle C Metro Park) on a weekday afternoon. All I can say is "HOLY SH*T", if that is what success looks like I don't want any part of it. As I waited at the first tee there was a group on 4 guys wandering around in the fairway, without any apparent purpose. There was another group waiting on the first tee, me, and then a mother with her two young kids came up behind me and were waiting. The four dudes continued milling around and I figured out that they might have been waiting on a group to putt out, but I couldn't see the basket from where I was. After observing this for several minutes I bailed, and caught a couple of rounds at a 9-hole course on my way back home. I cannot imagine what a weekend would look like at Circle C, but the reviews indicate chaos as a definite possibility.

Maybe the answer to this is growth in the form of more courses. Or maybe it is growth in the form of P2P. But if growth manifests itself in the form of badly overcrowded public courses, then I'll take the current situation.

^^^This kind of growth truly sucks. In the 13ish years I've lived where I currently do, I've seen some of the courses "evolve" from clean and empty to effing wrecked and unplayably crowded during daylight hours. There are still a couple nearby courses that the chuckers have left alone but Tourist Park in particular (one of our sport's first courses) has been all but trashed by this growth.

Tourist Park is in a college town, which generally means its own set of problems, and none of the local courses are pay-to-play. While I'm happpy to see more people playing I was happier when my group and I had the courses almost to ourselves. We (myself and dg buddies) try to be ambassadors for the sport and actively discourage littering/vandalism/general idiocy when we see it, but it seems like as more people are playing the dbag to non-dbag imbalance is only increasing.

The issue is similar to my feelings on vacations in the Boundary Waters/Quetico. For my entire life my family has taken trips to the BWCA and as much as I love the experience and want to share it with others, I don't want to tell anyone how geat it is because most of that greatness stems from the absence of other humans. Similarly, I do love the explosive increase in local and regional events, and the availability of high-quality video coverage from events all over the country and world, both of which are only possible through growth. I just hope the growth doesn't turn out to be a malignant tumor.

 

[disc qualified]

if it is possible to have more courses with fewer chuckers then that is what i want

 

[namar]

if it is possible to have more courses with fewer chuckers then that is what i want

Now we're gettin somewhere