SmoothSailor
* Ace Member *
I like this pay ams nothing mentality. Makes me not feel so bad about not paying as deep.
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How deep should a Payout Be?
- Thread starter optidiscic
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Vonbeezy1
Banned
Super necro bump. Anyone else tired of seeing nearly half of the open field take cash instead of just 25-33%?
Too top heavy a payout usually equals the "fish" in the open division either staying home or playing advanced if they're eligible, and when that happens, the "sharks" make less money, and people in advanced get angry.
So, no I don't. Although 40-45% is more normal around here.
So, no I don't. Although 40-45% is more normal around here.
Usher
Birdie Member
1 in 4. 25%
PDGA standards require 40%-50% payout. Read the tour standards.
What's needed is for all these folks with better ideas to implement and demonstrate them. See how well they catch on.
Some, especially the Am-related formulas, can be done in a PDGA event. Have a huge players pack, and low payouts in merchandise, or trophy-only. Or have lower entry fees in lower divisions, so the payouts or lower.
Pros are a little trickier, though if you have added cash I've seen an argument that it can be weighted towards the top.
And if that's not enough, don't sanction and use whatever formula you want.
Ultimately, this is driven by the players. TDs tend to do what will bring players to their events. Or what they think will. If you can demonstrate that huge players pack/trophy only to winners will fill the amateur divisions, perhaps more TDs will try it.
Some, especially the Am-related formulas, can be done in a PDGA event. Have a huge players pack, and low payouts in merchandise, or trophy-only. Or have lower entry fees in lower divisions, so the payouts or lower.
Pros are a little trickier, though if you have added cash I've seen an argument that it can be weighted towards the top.
And if that's not enough, don't sanction and use whatever formula you want.
Ultimately, this is driven by the players. TDs tend to do what will bring players to their events. Or what they think will. If you can demonstrate that huge players pack/trophy only to winners will fill the amateur divisions, perhaps more TDs will try it.
For what it's worth, PGA events typically pay half the field (the ones that make the cut).
The problem with our payout model isn't how deep the payout goes, it's how the purse is generated in the first place. When we get to a place where the majority of a tournament's purse isn't generated by the entry fees paid in, the question of how many players get paid becomes a non-issue.
The problem with our payout model isn't how deep the payout goes, it's how the purse is generated in the first place. When we get to a place where the majority of a tournament's purse isn't generated by the entry fees paid in, the question of how many players get paid becomes a non-issue.
I'd rather get rid of player packs altogether and just pay out ams in merch. I voted 25%, but half is fine if you don't get a player's pack full of crap you'll never use.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Those PDGA 40%-50% guidelines are only for U.S. and Canadian events. The PDGA International payout tables include options ranging from 10% to 50%.
Personally, I wish the PDGA payout standards weren't mandatory---like divisions offered, TDs could alter it with advance notice. It would be interesting to see a wider variety of formulas offered to players.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
In theory, the U.S. payout guidelines have been there historically to protect players from a cash grab by TDs, encourage more participation from lower rated and newer players without memberships and ratings, and provide more consistent expectations without the TD needing to promote their payout plan. In the case of the International payouts, Japan in particular had high tournament costs, usually run on temp courses with few permanent tournament courses available. So their payouts were allowed to be lower to provide sufficient income for TDs to not lose money on tournament expenses.
I agree with Sauls that with the Internet providing much easier and faster communication, growth of the sport and chatter on social media that it makes more sense in a free market economy to allow TDs to simply run the events financially how they wish and let the player market decide if the event might provide value or has proven to provide value to participate. However, many TDs and events following the current guidelines have been exceedingly successful in terms of participation and growing the sport. So TDs should carefully consider where deviating from this tested format might make things even better. Note that the PDGA competition structure provides many options with no waiver required and reasonable deviations can get approved with a waiver.
You could just as easily go the other way and give players a voucher as a player's pack equivalent to their entry fee minus fees, and have no payout.
The TD would get roughly the same markup, more people would get some stuff and it would at least be stuff they picked (provided that it isn't all crap to begin with).
I'm not active in tournaments yet. But I like the idea of only having a payout in the pro divisions. Top 25%? Stop giving people incentive to drop a division to whoop up on us poor ams. Maybe give only a little bit of merch/disc payout to the top three in each lower division.
I'd rather get rewarded for good play. Put more in the kitty for placing well, and maybe people will start playing their ratings more often, instead of the ludicrous "well you're 900 rated, you should be playing Advanced" garbage that permeates the sport in certain regions.
Then again, I think people should be forced to play in the division that their rating qualifies them for, outside of age protected divisions. If you're a 930 player, then be forced to play Int. If you want to play Adv, get better.
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Isn't there also a trophy only option?
I think it's technically called "true amateur" not trophy only. Same thing tho; 100% of net entry fees in players packs, trophies etc and zero payout
Perhaps he's talking about the option for a player to register at a much lower fee, but not receive payouts for finish. It's available IF the TD wants to make it available.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Trophy Only is still an option for TDs to offer but rarely used these days. What's now called "True Amateur", where compensation is primarily a player pack, is becoming more common, especially in certain big events where dealing with lots of merch payout prizes after the event is much more cumbersome. Personally, I'm not a big fan of "True Am" because to me it feels like I'm "forced" to buy a specific set of products from a retailer and as a bonus, the retailer will host a competition where my performance doesn't really matter unless I'm a true contender to win the division. Even if the Player Pack is a merch certificate of a certain value, it's only a bit better. For example, if Payless Shoe store promoted "Buy a $50 gift certificate and play our 2-round event free", I'm probably just mildly interested if I needed shoes anyway. How about you?
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