How I Would Change the PDGA

[Ripper]

I don't think anyone is suggesting that everything is perfect with the PDGA, just that tweaks and adjustments might be called for rather than a complete restructuring.

Agreed. I still enjoy playing tourneys! Life gets in the way of playing allot but I think the PDGA ratings, etc are great and the availability of tournaments. No complaints here!

 

[jobwilson]

I'll be paying the PDGA $10 this weekend, because I simply can't commit to the schedule to make $50 for the whole year worth it like I used to. It has nothing to do with how the PDGA operates things.

I am running for BOD this year. This will be my first time running.

My primary goal is to change the pricing structure of memberships. There needs to be a more economical option for players who only play a couple tournaments per year.

I think a $25-$30 option where players get a rating, rulebook and discount is conceivable and would be very successful.

I have other goals as a member of the board of directors, but this is goal number one.

You will be so hearing more from me very soon.

 

[Brodysseus]

If some of the "build from the top down" hero worship suggestions others have suggested here were ever implemented, the PDGA would never see another nickel from me.

I don't usually agree with you on much, but I agree with this statement 100%.

 

[LukeButch]

4) There would be a Tour for older Pros.

any proof that there are numbers to warrant this? And without major help from a disc manufacturer(like US masters) and a smaller player base where would sponsorship $$ come from?

5) The PDGA would make a serious effort to provide good value for recreational players.

Do you really think the PROFESSIONAL disc golf association is the ideal group to reach out to rec players? an organization that focuses on tournament disc golf which most rec/casuals will never play.

7) There would be POY awards for all Pro divisions, and for major Amateur divisions.

to celebrate players who play in divisions beneath their skill level? what is a major amateur division anyways? lol



You still seem stuck in that same logic the PDGA leadership has been plagued with for years, that the PDGA should be some all-encompassing disc golf organization: running tournaments, growing youth participation, international outreach, bringing casuals into tournament play, and public outreach to promote disc golf, among other things. Trying to do so many things is exactly why the PDGA isn't successful in many. the board needs to focus on either growing from the bottom up(basically becoming the AMATEUR disc golf association) or to do as much as it can to promote top level tournaments and use them to attract new players and sponsors. NOT try to do both at the same time, and fail at both

 

[McFer]

I think a $25-$30 option where players get a rating, rulebook and discount is conceivable and would be very successful.

This is a great idea.

$50 + first tourney fee = nearly $100 for someone to break into their first tournament. That's a pretty big barrier to entry for folks who aren't quite sure if they want to participate in tournaments or not.

A family membership would also be a good idea. For instance, a USTA adult membership is $44. A family membership is $72. For me and my kids to all have PDGA memberships, you're talking about $110 a year. Kids are the key to growth, and a family membership would make it easier for parents to get kids involved.

 

[tomsdiscs]

From here:
http://www.pdga.com/pdga-documents/demographics-current/growth-charts
http://www.pdga.com/pdga-documents/demographics-ye/2012-pdga-year-end-demographics

These statistics are close to pitiful.

The net increase in active membership is averaging about 1,000 people per year.

So if the membership statistics are US only, and you assume disc golf is played in all 50 states, that means the net increase in membership is on average 20 people per year per state.

I joined the PDGA about 4 years ago (did not renew), in the past 4 years, the increase in active members is about 5,000, but the change in member numbers has grown by about 19,000, so this shows huge attrition.

Using just slightly rounded member numbers, my PDGA # is 41,000, I just ran queries on the PDGA website and got a hit on member number 60,050.

 

[Rizbee]

A family membership would also be a good idea. For instance, a USTA adult membership is $44. A family membership is $72. For me and my kids to all have PDGA memberships, you're talking about $110 a year. Kids are the key to growth, and a family membership would make it easier for parents to get kids involved.

One of the best things I've read yet on the thread.

I definitely agree that throwing money at the top pro players won't grow the sport. Since mainstream media exposure to the 1020+ crowd is nearly non-existent, how does paying these guys more lead to growth of the sport? Who outside our little world of enthusiasts cares?

And I think that as things currently stand, the PDGA *has to* be all things to all people. There is no other group stepping forward to take on any of these roles, at a national or international level. The PDGA is best-positioned to organize the pro tour and market the sport. And it's the best choice we have to develop widely-publicized efforts aimed at introducing new players to the game. The PDGA has a large membership, a magazine and a heavily-hit web site that can be leveraged to support these efforts.

Unfortunately, the PDGA is plagued by continued bellyaching from players who want more back than they put in. Stop expecting more than your $50 worth. If you get a full (personal) return on investment, what's left to pay for all these new things you want? To afford that $50 membership, why not buy 3 fewer discs this year?

I volunteer hundreds of hours each year to my local and regional clubs, running tournaments and leagues, wrangling new courses, managing websites, running meetings and teaching new players. And I pay my PDGA and local club dues. And I do this because I know that the sport won't grow unless I, and others like me, do it. Seeing more people playing the courses I helped install and throwing the disc with my club's stamp on it makes me feel good. Like I helped accomplish something. It's not up to the PDGA, it's up to me.

 

[JTacoma03]

Where does that money come from? If you make the PDGA focused solely on the pro tour, ams are going to stop joining. Suddenly you've got even less money to work with. Even if you did change the focus like that, what is it we should be spending money on that will suddenly bring in sponsors?

I'm going to disagree with you here. While there's an abundance of cheapskates in the game, you should never cater to them or fear losing them. As a business model, you're not losing much money even if you lose the low end.

At this point we could spend money in a plethora of places and become more attractive to bigger industry. Most people walk by a disc golf tournament and don't know one is happening, that must change especially at the NT level.

If that's the initial outcome, there's never any reason for new people to come out, the field will just keep shrinking. If you want to see better athletes I think you'd be much better served focusing on building from the bottom up. Get high school and college programs started across the country and you'll have a much bigger talent pool to find the next generation of great players. Just throwing money at the current pros isn't going to do that. People who didn't know about disc golf won't suddenly take up the sport because someone they've never heard of won a few tens of thousands of dollars in a tournament they didn't watch.

I think we're seeing two different things here. Developing the pro tour isn't "throwing money at the pros". I'm not talking about us giving the pros more money. I'm talking about developing the prestige of the tour. I'm in favor of AM's NOT giving more money to Pros, but having bigger fiscal sponsors who would entice pros to be there.

The formula is simple: We make an attractive product. Big sponsors want to be a part because they see profit potential. Big sponsors provide the incentives for pros to play big tournaments, and big sponsors sell to Am's their products for profit (not necessarily at tournaments, but you get the idea).

Having a good pro tour will naturally attract more youth to the game. Money attracts talent, just like in other pro sports. We've got the grassroots swell underway already, the talent will come when the money comes. A bunch of 900-rated AM's on a forum teaching a bunch of high schoolers is NOT going to make our sport better, IMO.

 

[JTacoma03]

Also, are people seriously bitching about a $50 yearly membership fee? Most of you pay more on your credit card annual fees, or a bar tab, or the latest MVP disc set.

It's less than $5/month to be a part of the PDGA as an AM. If you have a Spotify, Netflix, etc. membership and you're complaining about a membership that pays for itself if you play tournaments -you're either a hypocrite or a serious cheapskate.

 

[MikePinchico]

My brother-in-law just paid 150$ to ride in a "big" (bicycle) race here in the north state. You know what the winner got? A trophy (cost max 50$). Over 500 people participated. DO THE MATH! 50$ for an annual membership to the PDGA and you complain?
Our sport depends on the 1% of the sport who take the time to maintain, actively fight, teach noobies, TD, ect ect. Bitch on a forum or go to your local work party and support the ones who run events. Disc golf: THE ENTITLED SPORT OF AMERICA.

 

[cooker]

16. Change name.
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Shive for president of the AmDGA!

I like everything you're saying and believe there is as much need for this as their is of an org that focusses on the Pro side. I've said it before and I'll say it again.....look at Ultimate. Currently two different orgs have created a PRO league separate from the long standing usau association in an attempt to create a more sustainable format for touring pros. While in it's infancy, many are favoring the new option over the usau's offerings for elite players which sticks to the old school style weekend long events that players pay to attend/travel to and reap little reward for winning. Usau has been referred to as the am ass now, while they seem unwilling to for now, I think it's time for usau to stop worrying about elite play and focus on the much larger member base of ams they have.

Ultimate and bolf have pro and am orgs. One day disc golf will too, will the PDGA lead us there or will it be another org that challenges the do-it-all pDGA? (paging Steve dodge, jeremey Rusco, or another innovator willing to go big).

 

[shive]

To JTacoma03 (post #12) and jeverett (#17):

You wonder why I speak for a tour for amateurs and older pros, which you (like Steve Dodge) believe would dilute proper emphasis on the National Tour.

First, there is already incredible emphasis on the National Tour. Those events (about half of the 2013 "PDGA-owned" events) are currently subsidized to the tune of about $150,000 (about $20,000 per event). Most of this money comes from amateurs and older pros. The prime benefit goes to about one hundred players. It's already, as I said, way out of whack.

Almost all our members join the PDGA because they want to play, not to watch. If you want to watch, there is no need to join. I want to do things to improve the playing experience of the "little people" in the PDGA. They are paying the bills, and they should get more for their contributions. Tours for them would do this, by giving them the potential to enrich their experiences. We've had enough of being told that more and more of the money we contribute should go to the Open Pros. "My God", I thought when I read Steve's article, "How much more do they want!"

Now I want to give Steve Dodge his due here. He is an acclaimed TD who runs a top NT. Of course he would like to see more emphasis on NT's, and less on amateurs and older pros. And he has great press (e.g. his story in the magazine). By comparison, you won't ever see my story in the magazine. I did write one three years ago, by invitation, but it was yanked just before going to press. Too controversial, I was told.

 

[DavidSauls]

As a lifelong, non-aggrieved Am, I feel I'm getting more than enough value from tournaments. As a group, we're getting almost our entire entry back in prizes, playing almost for free. The $50 annual membership is a bit steep, but still $4 a month to be part of my sport's national organization, or the cost of about 3 discs a year.

I don't see where an Am tour would give me any greater benefit. I'm not touring---only a tiny percentage of Ams would or could go on tour---and I care to follow them even less.

Is the $150,000 subsidy for Pros actual cash to Pros? Or is it things like having a PDGA presence at NT & Major events? At any rate that's, what, $5-$10 per Amateur?

I could name 50 changes I'd like to see in the PDGA at the drop of a hat, but none involve Ams or older players being mistreated by the current system.

The focus of the PDGA? Count me as one who believes there is no one focus, nor should they be. The PDGA should work to build disc golf at all levels, because growth at all levels benefits disc golf as a whole.

 

[scarpfish]

These statistics are close to pitiful.

The net increase in active membership is averaging about 1,000 people per year.

So if the membership statistics are US only, and you assume disc golf is played in all 50 states, that means the net increase in membership is on average 20 people per year per state.

I joined the PDGA about 4 years ago (did not renew), in the past 4 years, the increase in active members is about 5,000, but the change in member numbers has grown by about 19,000, so this shows huge attrition.

Has anyone is the thread concluded that it was the PDGA's mannerisms that have caused this attrition? I paid membership for four years. I only stopped when life changes got in the way of being able to play as many tournaments as I used to. This game affords me many means of playing without the PDGA involved, putting tons of miles on my car, having to make leave arrangements with my boss and staying many nights in hotel rooms.

I'd suspect for the overwhelming majority of folks who stopped renewing at some point, there were similar reasons.

 

[dashiellx]

Also, are people seriously bitching about a $50 yearly membership fee? Most of you pay more on your credit card annual fees, or a bar tab, or the latest MVP disc set.

It's less than $5/month to be a part of the PDGA as an AM. If you have a Spotify, Netflix, etc. membership and you're complaining about a membership that pays for itself if you play tournaments -you're either a hypocrite or a serious cheapskate.

I understand that as a ratio to other things, a PDGA membership is affordable. However when you are paying for those other things, have kids and life insurance, car payments, etc.... it can be hard to justify another $50 and receive very little in return for someone who will only play 1 or 2 tourneys a season.

 

[anathematize]

It's less than $5/month to be a part of the PDGA as an AM. If you have a Spotify, Netflix, etc. membership and you're complaining about a membership that pays for itself if you play tournaments -you're either a hypocrite or a serious cheapskate.

Spotify, Netflix: Daily entertainment. So much content a single person could never consume it all.

PDGA membership: Maybe used a couple times per year. Not to mention additional entry fees added on top of the membership.

The cost/benefit ratio isn't even in the same ballpark. There is nothing hypocritical or 'cheap' about actually thinking about how you are spending your money and what is the best way to maximize your value.

You probably should have thrown in a "LOL Y U SO POOR BRO" to top it all off nicely.

 

[KYdischippy]

These things Shive and others are talking about is why I'm not renewing this year. I have looked at the Southern Nationals model a lot and am going to start playing those events. There is no membership fee. Each tournament $2 is taken from each player. Of that $2, .25 cents is giving to maintaining the Southern Nationals. And now the part I like, The rest $1.75 is put into a pool for payout at the Southern Nationals Championships. The $1.75 stays in the division it was taken from for payout. You qualify for the championships on a points race basis.
Now some will say, "how is this furthering our sport? How will they get on TV? How will Pros make a living?"
My answer, I don't care! I like playing disc golf, I'll never be good enough to make a living and I don't care how many people think disc golf is a "real sport." I don't need validation from the masses to make me enjoy the sport I love.

 

[Happablap]

I don't care how many people think disc golf is a "real sport." I don't need validation from the masses to make me enjoy the sport I love.

This.

And that show of The Memorial that the PDGA produced was a joke. It reminds me of all the Worlds DVDs. Boring. How much are they spending on these shows on BSN? Seems like a waste of money to me if they are all going to be like that.

 

[rd.bittle]

A family membership would also be a good idea. For instance, a USTA adult membership is $44. A family membership is $72. For me and my kids to all have PDGA memberships, you're talking about $110 a year. Kids are the key to growth, and a family membership would make it easier for parents to get kids involved.

This. This. This. This.

 

[turbosteve]

A family membership would also be a good idea. For instance, a USTA adult membership is $44. A family membership is $72. For me and my kids to all have PDGA memberships, you're talking about $110 a year. Kids are the key to growth, and a family membership would make it easier for parents to get kids involved.

The PDGA actually gives a $5 discount for family memberships because only 1 copy of the magazine is delivered to the household