I can BARELY break 300'

[sidewinder22]

Everything looks great right up until you are about to plant front foot. Your weight stalls back on your rear foot as your front foot plants, so you land slow and soft on front foot, and push your upper spine over from your rear foot still weight back pushing on ground. You want a more sudden shift of weight pressure in dynamic balance into the plant, sticking your foot/pressure into the ground like a shifty running back. It's going to feel weird/different setting up/ landing on your front leg axis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=1m14s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DMwiBkvrkg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6skkV1nNKsY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVaa9LGVGI4
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118948

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

Well I'm not sure if this is better or just more of the same. My main focus here was just trying to shift my weight faster onto the plant foot. While doing these throws I felt more upright, but I still might be pushing my spine over, hard to tell. Also I'll apologize in advance for the angle. I accidentally left my bag and my good tripod in my wife's car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgzzCsYHTT4

 

[sidewinder22]

Second one looked the best. Your front heel/leg is spinning out on the way down.

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

Hey there, I'm back, I haven't played much or thrown discs for about two years but I got out recently and was bitten by the bug again.



This is a video I took after a few rounds. I went back through some of the later stuff in my thread here and when I took a few videos I really noticed the off arm issue, so I focused basically only on that for this throw.

Coming back I have been really focusing on not throwing with my arm and making sure that I wait until I feel my arm and upper body moving through. IDK if my form has improved much here from back then, but I can definitely feel my arm coming through on it's own without me having to give it any upper body.

I can say that after my recent rounds I have been feeling the soreness in my right leg along the right side of my quads, and in my right glute. This is a huge improvement from my ankle being messed up everytime I went to throw a round, and I think it means that I'm powering my shot with my lower body at least somewhat correctly.

As always let me know what you see and what I should try next.

 

[sidewinder22]

You just spin out and go over top. You need to stride your front foot targetward and shift/catch yourself from behind... then swing on braced front leg. Note how much wider my stance ends up with knee braced behind ankle and rear foot rolls inward.

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

I can't get out to throw until later this week, but I was trying out some practice swings and got really excited so I wanted to post and see if I'm on the right track.




I looked through some slightly older posts on my thread here, and rewatched the turbo encabulator video. My brain looked at that and didn't really believe it could generate power, but man was I wrong. I did the little hop back and forth just like in the video and then tried to see what a swing out of that movement would feel like. I also tried to keep the "no arm" feeling and just let my upper body come through whenever it wanted to, and I think that made a huge difference from when I tried this drill before. Trying to stay loose and do the "no arm" feel probably made parts of this look sloppy, but I think I did figure something out.

Trying to land with my whole axis completely aligned to the plant leg did feel really weird, and it feels like a whole different mechanism powering the shot, it's a completely different kind of swing and feel; but after messing around with it, I feel like things make a lot more sense. I turn back as I'm striding forward, and start aligning my torso with my leg, land hard on the front leg, and then after that let the force rotate my body around that axis. It felt like the harder I came down on the plant leg, the faster my arm swung. I actually had to hold back on planting too hard because it felt like the bar and disc that I was holding in this video might just rip out of my hand through the drywall. It feels like the way to get more power is to simply shift/land into the brace harder, because after I land, gravity and momentum are doing the work, instead of my arm and upper body. The "hit" also makes more sense, the metal dumbbell bar felt like it got heavier right as it traveled over my front foot (finally).

I'm really excited to try this out next time I can throw, but I would love a quick check to know if I'm headed in the right direction.

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

I tried throwing using the feel from the last video, and it was frustrating to say the least. I'm having a difficult time not tipping over the brace and rotating around the right leg axis properly, so I decided to power it way down and just throw as simple as I could while still trying to get my spine angle right, making sure my knee doesn't leak past my ankle, and making sure the back foot rolls forward instead of spinning out. I'm not sure if I'm still tipping over the brace or not, but this feels a lot easier on my joints. I still feel like to get more distance I need to shift into the plant faster but I'm not going to worry about that just yet.

 

[Brychanus]

The overall move is far too flat, posturally speaking.

Straight & Flat Swing Plane Does Not Exist!

So I think a lot of players really struggle finding that effortless distance because they are trying to throw straight and flat by pulling the disc with the arm in a straight line and trying to manipulate the spin of the disc flat by actively curling the wrist and arm into horizontal flexion and...

www.dgcoursereview.com

What happens if you throw directly out of seabas22 Dingle arm or loopghost standstill windmill?

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

So I can't throw until the weekend most likely due to my work schedule, but I read through that thread again, and watched the reciprocating dingle arm video again, and I think it's making more sense now. I've watched it before and read that thread before but was always a little confused how to get the pendulum/ swing feel while throwing a "normal" flat shot.



This helped me think about it a lot better because for this dude to keep the hammer throw completely flat, he has to lean way back to counterbalance the weight of the hammer he's throwing.




This helped too because they aren't throwing with a perfectly flat plane, but they also aren't doing the completely vertical pendulum move that I thought I was supposed to be doing. Their pendulum is very roughly in a 45ish degree out from the body kind of angle.





This is me just running through the motion with a disc for weight. I noticed when I went through this that my focus was just on swinging the pendulum at a 45 degree-ish angle from my body, and trying to counterbalance the weight of the arm and disc with my body. when I focused on this, it seems like I automatically set up into the brace without having to think about it, because that's just what I have to do in order to counterbalance the pendulum. I also didn't have to intentionally focus on not tipping my spine over my brace which has been a persistent habit for years now for me.

I haven't thrown using this yet, and I'm managing my expectations because I have a habit of getting too excited and then very disappointed, but this feels very good, and seems to make the pendulum analogy make more sense to my brain. I will update with another video of me actually using this to throw next but thank you for the suggestion, I don't know why I didn't get this before when I read that thread and watched reciprocating dingle arm in the past but it seems to be working at least at first test.

 

[Brychanus]

Keep in mind that at least on power drives, a lot of pros aren't trying to throw flat (release angles, I mean). Even when they are, they are not using flat form - they are using athletic posture and kinetic chains. Somewhat hyzer releases are still popular for some pros when throwing flat, and sometimes power "anhyzers" are actually starting on hyzer, e.g., in Simon and Drew:




Others use more shallow hyzerflips or throw/rip over anhyzer and let the disc coast and rely on OS, which I think we see becoming more common among longer and lighter body types. Don't just take some rando's word for it. Watch some of the variation in max distance lines here. Pay the most attention to people whose bodies seem the most similar to yours:



IMHO people often misunderstand the point of seabas pendulum lessons. It's not just about throwing like David Feldberg. The pendulum effect is about efficiency of moving for power relative to gravity in rhythm in athletic balance, and doesn't need to be very large in form for it to significantly reduce effort and/or add distance. Understanding it is one thing, doing it is another, and doing it well takes years. I could throw farther flatter too when I want to after a lot of time picking up mechanics on hyzer, and still have plenty of things to work on. I find anhyzer doable but a little less comfortable for power shots due to form and body type, probably, everyone's a little different.

Anyway, your video drill looks a little better but you're collapsing at the shoulder and not comfortable committing through the release point in leverage. Might suggest you jump right to door frame drill. You need to use the frame to give your body feedback about posture and the shoulder not collapsing, then bring that right back to your dingle arm and disc. The throw is a weird combination of getting "long" along the teepad in the reachback, and finding a minimum effort shift and throw getting your own body out of the way.

 

[sidewinder22]

Note how the Hammer Thrower's spine is in slight flexion with hips hinged back and navel is tucked toward belt bucket. Your hips are forward and spine is extended / anterior pelvic tilt so your navel is spread away from your belt buckle throughout the backswing and forward.

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

I've been trying some practice swings inside while keeping my hips and pelvis more neutral instead of in anterior pelvic tilt. My brace feels more solid doing this, but it takes basically all of my attention to do so without just collapsing back to "normal" (anterior pelvic tilt). I'm gonna try and keep the 45 degree pendulum swing plane, and try and keep my hips tucked back when I can throw this weekend and see how it goes. Thank you all for the feedback


I did have some questions though

"Anyway, your video drill looks a little better but you're collapsing at the shoulder and not comfortable committing through the release point in leverage."

When you say collapsing at the shoulder, I assume you mean that I'm hugging myself and not keeping the humerus to ribcage angle at 90 degrees or greater, which I can also try and do next time I'm throwing. I've been back to doing some door frame drill in my spare time as well.

I just wanted to check that that is what you meant by shoulder collapsing, and it isn't a different issue that I'm not understanding. I'm also not quite understanding the "commit through the release point in leverage" bit. Is this just something that will happen more naturally when I get my shoulder angle right, or is there a mental note or thing I need to commit to more that you are seeing.

All feedback is welcome and I appreciate the time you guys spend on this.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are spinning your hips open and extending your elbow way early/hugging yourself.
Slow down your lower body/shift from behind and hammer out with shoulders still closed to target.

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

I wasn't able to get any fieldwork practice this weekend so I'm stuck inside doing drills. I've been going through door frame drill some more, and tried the don't spill the beverage drill a few times to try and stop opening hips and shoulders too soon, and keep my shoulder from collapsing while still keeping my arm relaxed and loose. I'm not sure if I did a great job with this in the video though.

I've also been trying to focus on hinging my hips and not allowing them to slip back into anterior pelvic tilt, but this is proving difficult as it takes most of my attention, and in these throws I likely slipped back into my typical pelvic tilt at certain points. I think I am going to start doing some kettlebell swings to address my chronic anterior hip tilt, because when I can remember to do this, it makes the swing and brace feel more solid.

Anyway, here is me inside with a disc for weight trying to bring the new concepts and feel all together. I mainly was focused on keeping the pendulum feel as best as I could while also keeping my hips hinged back, and trying to not collapse my shoulder.

 

[sidewinder22]

Your hips and spine are extended so your shoulders are behind your hips, chest up/humping the goat. Note how my hips are hinged back so my chest is down and shoulders forward over hips/knees like shoveling snow/dirt. Camera behind tee might be easier to see.

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

Been a few weeks, I've been playing some rounds and trying to incorporate some different ideas. I should be able to get a video of me actually throwing this weekend. I tried to stay hinged back during this video and not let my hips come forward past my shoulders, and keep my chest down.




I've felt like my brace is weak for a while now, so I've been watching some videos and reading about the brace and how when done properly it rotates the hips very quickly and powerfully by resisting against the ground force generated by dropping your weight onto the plant leg. In particular I've been focusing on the extension of the right leg/ knee, and how this extension pushes the front hip backwards thereby rotating the hips. When done at full speed, I got the feeling of all my weight falling backwards - catching myself with the plant leg - and then sort of "bouncing" back up through the shot by extending my plant leg against the force of my weight shift.

In this video I tried to start from a standstill and bring my stride out longer and longer while keeping this "bounce" feeling in my plant leg. I've been imagining my weight shift, and my brace, as two separate movements. The weight shift feels like me coiling against the left side, and then falling backwards(ish) into my plant leg. The brace is then me extending my leg against that force right after I land, which drives the hip rotation. When I do this at full speed and try to blend it into one smooth motion, it feels like I'm bouncing off my plant leg to power the shot.

So far I've only been able to throw using this feel once, but without warming up I got a midrange out to about 300 feet from a 1 step, and since the effort was coming from my plant leg instead of the upper body, it felt pretty easy and effortless.

Would love a quick check to make sure I'm headed in the right direction.

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Turn your front foot slightly open. This should help keep your hip braced behind your ankle/knee. I think it also causes you to jump up instead of pivoting thru more level.

2. It looks like you extend your elbow way early and throwing downward into the ground instead of throwing forward out to target.