I think Val got burned.

[lyleoross]

Nothing like blaming an epic choke job on your little brother. Ricky threw a forehand straight into a tree 40 feet in front of him. I must have missed the part where his caddy was prancing around distracting him.

I'm going to choose to view this in a different way. I don't know what Ricky said exactly, but it didn't sound like, "it was my Bros fault.". It sounded more like, "I wasn't thinking about my game, I was thinking about my bro.". That is still on Ricky, not his brother.

It takes a lot of focus to make your shots. Pros know this. Even small distractions can add up. Ricky recognizing he needs to be clear from distractions isn't the same as him blaming his brother.

 

[lyleoross]

This is a very sad situation for Sharon Jenkins. She recently lost her husband and now she probably feels guilty for getting Val DQ'd. None of the involved parties needed any more added stress and negativity in their lives. I feel bad for both Val and Sharon. <3

Yep! Hmm, this just makes me think that this thread needs to go away.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I have a new found respect for Mr. Wysocki. It may have cost him, but his heart was where it should have been.

I was thinking the opposite. If the above is true about his concern for his brother's happiness trumping his focus for a World Championship, he must not be concerned after the fact about his brother's feelings about being blamed for losing World's.

 

[wolfmandragon]

Yep! Hmm, this just makes me think that this thread needs to go away.

Light is a great disinfectant. While some comments may have been in bad taste, the conversation is good.

 

[DiscFifty]

Honestly, multiple people were on the card and someone should have warned her way before it got to this. It shows just how difficult it is too enforce the rules. That said, carrying a drink through a round in a sport where there is a clear indication that they look for such things takes a whole lot of I'm not thinking.

She was only her caddie for 4 holes, probably took a while realize the infraction.

 

[DiscFifty]

Can you give us the link? It seems odd, "my caddie has an empty can, TD is going to DQ me, I'm taking this lying down."

https://www.pdga.com/announcements/statement-valarie-jenkins-disqualification-santa-cruz-masters-cup

On Tuesday, May 22, Jenkins issued the following:

"I pulled my mom from the spectating crowd and asked her to caddy for me in the last four holes to finish the second round in which she carried with her an empty beer can in a coozie. I admit that this was a lapse in judgment on my part which could have been handled very differently. I had no intention to break the rules and I apologize to my fellow competitors and fans as this did not show the professional side of the sport in the best light."

-PDGA UPDATE

 

[JTacoma03]

There's a picture of her mom carrying the koozie/beer can (during the round) floating around. Why would she be holding onto an empty beer can? So much doesn't make sense....I mean the moment Val says..."Hey mom, wanna caddie for me?"... "Sure Val, let me throw away my beer first." Yes..THROW away the beer right away! Why would she even hold onto it in the first place...and then for everyone to see? Again...joe schmoe from the gallery..pulled out to be a caddie...sure...he'll make that mistake...but we're talking about high profile disc golf people here. I at first thought the can was discreetly placed out of sight and perhaps Val's mom simply forgot about it, but wow..she was actually walking around holding it. Not really buying the empty can thing unfortunately.

I wasn't there at that moment, but do keep in mind DeLa is not a "park" in the traditional sense. There's literally one set of trash/recycling cans on the whole property where the course is, two porta potties serve as the bathroom, etc.. It has the amenities of a wilderness course, not a park.

 

[paulw]

This. Seemingly every week we are subjected to one debate or another over how such and such rule should be properly interpreted, often due to vagaries in the rules themselves. The PDGA has over the past however many years continually crowed about the great financial situation the organization is in. How about spending some of that (our) dough on third party oversight of some of this stuff? At what point does the game grow enough that the DIY approach does not work anymore? I would argue it has already passed that point.

I don't see the vagaries in this rule. I disagree that the game has grown past the DIY point also -- there's no big money involved so there's no need to involve lawyers. The message boards rage on but that's what we do -- my guess is that the people actually involved in this have moved on since just in casually meeting them through the years they seem resilient.

I bought a Val Jenkins Thrasher just to support her knowing she just took a hit financially.

No disrespect John, I know you do bunches and bunches for us disc golfers and I'm sure we don't thank-you enough -- I'm disagreeing with you only here on the internet. If this were the real world you'd be right because I'm not doing the work like you are.

 

[DanGarion]

Hey captain didn't-read-the-thread. There is strong consensus that it was at the TD's discretion to DQ Val because the rule in question is the caddie rules, not the rule you quoted. The question after that is whether the TD was correct in using his discretion to DQ a player for having a caddie with an empty beer can.

Count me on the side of "don't DQ players because their caddie has an empty beer can".

Strong? 50/50 isn't strong...

 

[lyleoross]

The beer can I saw wasn't in a coozie. Was everyone drinkin beer at this event?

I still feel there are missing parts here. If my caddie is carrying an empty can and not drinking on the card why does it play out this way? Something doesn't fit.

 

[lyleoross]

Light is a great disinfectant. While some comments may have been in bad taste, the conversation is good.

Sort of, except there isn't a whole lot of light, and there's a whole lot of speculation with no information.

I've also always been of the opinion that while the PDGA has to share the info with the player, it isn't on them to share with us. Privacy and all that.

 

[AHagglund]

Does anyone, anywhere think that disqualifying Val served the best interests of sportsmanship and fair play? Or are we only DQ'ing her because we think the rule says we have to?

Change the rule.

 

[Beer]

I can't *hic* believe anybody would *hic* have a problem with *hic* me!

BRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!

 

[Noill]

Go away Beer. Come back when you are Whisky&Cigar.

 

[teemkey]

One interpretation is that when Mrs. Jenkins was in possession of the beer can, empty or not, and still in the gallery, her behavior was the park's problem. When she became Val's caddie, she fell under the PDGA's authority. If she had gotten rid of the beer can, full or not, before she became Val's caddie, the PDGA would not have DQ'd Val.

Or, is the PDGA saying that because Mrs. Jenkins consumed the beer during Val's round, the moment she was designated as a caddie Val was subject to a DQ?

 

[biscoe]

It's impossible to remove all ambiguity, but it'd be ideal to remove as much as possible. I think the problem is that the lawyer or lawyers would need to have a lot of disc golf specific knowledge and understand the intricacies of the game to be able to give a thorough review of the rules.

I imagine there are a few lawyers that play disc golf that would be willing to do this though. I guess the current PDGA leadership prefers to have rule issues every week of the year. It's amazing that the PDGA took 5 years to come up with the 2018 rules update and still had mutliple large problems that did not appear to be thoroughly vetted.

Pretty sure i know of at least 2 lawyers with both sufficient dg knowledge and willingness to take on the process.

 

[PoorPutter]

I just realized how poorly this is worded: "Possession of alcohol from the start of play until the player's scorecard is submitted is not allowed.".

So by the poorly worded rule, you could possess alcohol for half the round, because you DIDN'T possess it "from the start of play until the player's scorecard is submitted".

Maybe not the best, but a better wording would be: "Possession of alcohol is not allowed at any point in time from the start of play until the player's scorecard is submitted.".

Like Biscoe said up-thread.....a professional review of the rules would be nice.

p.s. I know that's a ridiculous interpretation.....but it's true.

 

[trifocal]

Wisconsin players are interested in this story.

Was Mrs. Jenkins caddying with a lone beer can or.... were there/ had there been accomplices? The one mostly empty beer can recovered near the 14th hole suggests the possibility of there being 5 mostly empty beer cans that have yet to be recovered. Almost certainly the nearly empty beer can on 14 was not acting alone.

 

[SD86]

As I was reading this thread, one thing that occurred to me that may be an analogy: many States have an 'open beer can' law, where just having an open beer can, empty or not, can get one in trouble with the law. Carrying an open beer can while walking was or is illegal in some places (like the UGA campus; I know this from experience ), and in some places having an open beer can in a car can get the driver a DUI, regardless who's can it was or if was empty and had been empty in the backseat for a week.

Point being: Mrs. Jenkins needed to get rid of the beer can or give it to another spectator before picking up Val's bag and caddying for Val. I hate it for them both, but IMHO the TD absolutely did the correct thing.

 

[Spiky]

Agreed. The rules need to have all ambiguity removed. The wording should be so precise that there is no interpretation needed (or, even, possible). If that means hiring a couple lawyers to rewrite the book, then that's what should happen.

It's funny that people think lawyers remove ambiguity.