[Innova] Innova KATANA

[seedlings]

Please forgive me, but is Innova the leader in mold variability? Because it always sounds like any disc is a crap shoot if it will perform as advertised. Every other post I'm considering buying a Katana. The off posts I'm considering not buying Innova.

(I'm only kinda being sarcastic. I'm sure other companies have inconsistencies, but not as well advertised as Innova)

 

[Twmccoy]

Please forgive me, but is Innova the leader in mold variability? Because it always sounds like any disc is a crap shoot if it will perform as advertised. Every other post I'm considering buying a Katana. The off posts I'm considering not buying Innova.

(I'm only kinda being sarcastic. I'm sure other companies have inconsistencies, but not as well advertised as Innova)

There's definitely some variances in the Katana. It has a shallow, wide rim. Any other driver of that ilk is going to have the same inconsistencies.

IMO the Katana is a great mold, and will fly as far as any disc on the market. That said, not every Katana you throw will yield good results. You may have to throw 3 or 4 of them to find a really good one.

 

[aphilso1]

Please forgive me, but is Innova the leader in mold variability? Because it always sounds like any disc is a crap shoot if it will perform as advertised. Every other post I'm considering buying a Katana. The off posts I'm considering not buying Innova.

(I'm only kinda being sarcastic. I'm sure other companies have inconsistencies, but not as well advertised as Innova)

In my experience, anything above a Speed 11 in Innova plastic becomes somewhat of a crapshoot. But I'm looking for a specific type of flight, haven't tried out any new molds in quite a while, and the other molds I've also considered are tough to find right now in my preferred weight range. So it seemed worth giving the Katana a shot, but I agree that ideally I'd be testing out a non-Innova disc instead.

 

[Twmccoy]

In my experience, anything above a Speed 11 in Innova plastic becomes somewhat of a crapshoot. But I'm looking for a specific type of flight, haven't tried out any new molds in quite a while, and the other molds I've also considered are tough to find right now in my preferred weight range. So it seemed worth giving the Katana a shot, but I agree that ideally I'd be testing out a non-Innova disc instead.

For what the Katana does, no other manufacturer makes a disc that really matches it. The Katana is so fast and shallow. The closest thing I can think of is the Cannon.

A perfect Katana for me flies something like 14, 5, -2, 3. These are perfect numbers for an absolute masher disc. You get the high speed turn, but you also get enough late fade to bring the disc back toward center after a long S curve flight.

IDK what you'll end up thinking of the blizzard Katana. Those things can be really erratic. I find that Katanas 167g and up tend to be the best ones.

 

[tirepizza]

I have a 170 katana that is probably my longest disc, but I've never been able to get a consistent release with it. I guess it's a small hands wide rim thing. Wraiths are the fastest disc I've bagged regularly for a couple years.

 

[aphilso1]

Will do. I ordered a 162 Blizzard, 162 Pro, and 166 Champ. I'm pretty excited to test them out.

They arrived!

The 162 Pro is nearly board flat and I'm guessing will be a clunker.
The 162 Blizzard has a nice, moderate dome. Pretty standard distance driver shape.
The 166 Champ is really domey with a nice heartbeat. Also a noticeably higher PLH. This is the one I am most looking forward to throwing.

 

[twistedraven]

That champ is probably going to be a meathook unless you have 400 feet of power.

 

[Twmccoy]

They arrived!

The 162 Pro is nearly board flat and I'm guessing will be a clunker.
The 162 Blizzard has a nice, moderate dome. Pretty standard distance driver shape.
The 166 Champ is really domey with a nice heartbeat. Also a noticeably higher PLH. This is the one I am most looking forward to throwing.

Give them all some throws and do a quick write up. I'd be interested to see your thoughts.

Of those 3, the 166 champ would appeal most to me as well.

 

[aphilso1]

Give them all some throws and do a quick write up. I'd be interested to see your thoughts.

Of those 3, the 166 champ would appeal most to me as well.

I didn't have a chance to get out until 15 minutes prior to sunset last night. So I pretty much just got 3 throws per Katana, plus 1 throw with the new King. Also didn't have time to measure throws, so my first impressions aren't real accurate. That being said, here's my initial thoughts --

Thrown with hyzer:
King - easy max distance line (flipped to flat then kept turning, then had a healthy fade and finished straight overall). It clearly was the most unwieldy of the fresh discs, so although I was impressed by the first throw's flight I didn't want to risk losing it in the dark. Hence why I only threw it once.
162 Pro Katana - Started fading early. It did seem to fade forward much more than other Speed 13+ drivers, which was encouraging and made the distance loss less pronounced.
162 Blizz Katana - Flipped to flat. Ate up some good distance (closer to the King than the flat Pro Katana).
166 Champ - Faded early, similar distance to the flat Pro. But seemed to glide out better, which meant it actually ended further left than the Pro.

Thrown flat:
162 Pro - Really no noticeable turn, even thrown flat. Did chew up some decent distance despite that.
162 Blizzard - Healthy, but controllable, turn. Significant forward penetrating fade. Seemed like it went pretty far but again I wasn't measuring. Finished about 30'-40' left of target so clearly more fade than I gave it credit for.
166 Champ - A glidey hog. Thrown flat I could tell the 166 Champ clearly starts fading earlier than even the 162 Pro. But it's not a "seek the ground quickly" kind of overstable, rather it's a "fade for 50% of its flight" overstable. Not sure what I think about that.

I threw each disc flat a second time and found pretty similar results.

Surprisingly, I most enjoyed the Blizzard Katana. It flies out-of-the-box like I expected Shrykes to. I've got a pretty full plate this week, but hopefully I can find time to sneak outside and do some measurements. Also interested in seeing how these discs fly when forced over a bit, and when getting enough repetitions to develop consistency with them.

For reference, I'm typically a 320' straight-to hyzer and 340' full flight kind of arm. Most of my measured throws (meaning the disc went far enough for me to warrant the effort of measuring) are in the 375' range, but that is a full send plus luck for me.

 

[Twmccoy]

Kings are just wild. I like the distance they give, but I can't control them at all. Once they turn, they almost never come back. At least with a Katana you'll get a good late fade to bring the disc back toward center. I'd say the same about the Destiny as I do the King. Easy to turn and not enough late fade to bring it back.

Blizz Katanas are definitely long. I seldom throw them because they're so erratic. Any sort of wind plays havoc with them. I can do nearly 500' with blizz Katanas, but its seldom straight. If you miss your hyzer angle the disc will flip wildly and go out of the zip code to the right.

IMO blizzard discs aren't a viable on-course option. They're more fun for open field throwing when you want absolute max distance with zero regard for accuracy.

 

[PMantle]

I will not buy another pro distance driver unless I am somewhere with a stack of them to avoid flat ones. They just do not fly well.

 

[aphilso1]

Kings are just wild. I like the distance they give, but I can't control them at all. Once they turn, they almost never come back. At least with a Katana you'll get a good late fade to bring the disc back toward center. I'd say the same about the Destiny as I do the King. Easy to turn and not enough late fade to bring it back.

Blizz Katanas are definitely long. I seldom throw them because they're so erratic. Any sort of wind plays havoc with them. I can do nearly 500' with blizz Katanas, but its seldom straight. If you miss your hyzer angle the disc will flip wildly and go out of the zip code to the right.

IMO blizzard discs aren't a viable on-course option. They're more fun for open field throwing when you want absolute max distance with zero regard for accuracy.

Honestly, I probably won't put any of these discs in my bag on the courses I play the most. A Trespass is as fast as I can controllably handle on narrow courses. But we do have a couple ball golf courses in the area, and when I play there I think an absolute smasher of a disc is worth bagging even if it's a bit unwieldy.

 

[aphilso1]

I will not buy another pro distance driver unless I am somewhere with a stack of them to avoid flat ones. They just do not fly well.

Yeah totally. I can see that. I'm the same way with Biofuzion distance drivers -- I've gotten too many flat ones, which almost don't even resemble what the disc looks/feels/flies like in other plastics.

 

[aphilso1]

I got a few more throws in last night, but again no time to measure. Sick kids at home (not COVID) plus the fridge going out this week have really stolen most of my frisbee time. I did my bring along my beat in go-to Trespass last night for comparison sake, so I can at least better estimate distances.

166 Champ Katana - Even on a forced over flex this guy wants to fight left fast. And while overstable drivers have their own usefulness, I prefer slower OS hogs when I want more control and that is certainly not something I get from this wide-rimmed of a disc. This one may be a dud for me that only comes out on windy days on wide-open courses. Too fast to control and too overstable to mash. Reminds of a super domey Ballista Pro, which I disliked for the same reasons.

162 Pro - This disc actually was the best of the bunch on force over throws. Nice full flight with enough stability to fight out. I can throw this disc hard, ugly, and torquey and it goes as far as a clean Trespass throw. Also feels fantastic in the hand forehand, although I don't flick distance drivers a whole lot. I can see this one making the bag for rounds on open ball golf courses.

162 Blizzard - My favorite among the new discs. Flips to flat from a hyzer release and goes far. Gives a full flight and max distance on a flat release. And if I force it over, it pans right for a looooong ways before having enough late fight to land flat and avoid cut-rolling. This is the stability/speed combo I was looking for.

Air King - Basically one stability slot less than the Blizz Katana. Meaning King on hyzer release = Blizz Katana on flat release, and King on flat release = Blizz Katana on anny release. I think this disc can be useful if you want a beat-in Katana from Day 1, but I imagine it will fall out of that useful stability range pretty quickly. It does go really far. This and the Blizz Katana were consistently the furthest fliers by 20'+.

Obviously the real test is getting these discs out on a course, but as far as open field throwing goes the Blizzard Katana and Air King do smash. Using my beat in Trespass as a rough measuring stick, I can safely say that both the King and Blizz were easily averaging 350'+, and probably over 360'. I won't report back with additional findings until I've had a chance to audition these discs on courses.

 

[aphilso1]

One more quick musing. I find it interesting that I bought 4 discs that in theory should all be the same or similar stability. And what I got was a utility OS Katana, a straight-stable Katana, a max distance Katana, and an understable bookend King. Literally the full-spectrum of stabilities from two molds that are supposed to be basically the same disc. Yikes.

 

[Twmccoy]

One more quick musing. I find it interesting that I bought 4 discs that in theory should all be the same or similar stability. And what I got was a utility OS Katana, a straight-stable Katana, a max distance Katana, and an understable bookend King. Literally the full-spectrum of stabilities from two molds that are supposed to be basically the same disc. Yikes.

When you buy varying weights you're going to get varying flights, even if all the discs are the same mold.

I threw a flat blizzard Katana today that was a glideless turd. Absolute beef cake too. A thoroughly useless disc. I found it in a lake.

You definitely can't judge a Katana by weight alone.

 

[aphilso1]

When you buy varying weights you're going to get varying flights, even if all the discs are the same mold.

I threw a flat blizzard Katana today that was a glideless turd. Absolute beef cake too. A thoroughly useless disc. I found it in a lake.

You definitely can't judge a Katana by weight alone.

Yeah, but this was a huge difference in flight and only 4g of weight difference. I think the bigger factor is that the beefy Champ Katana has a much higher PLH. It almost feels like a different mold in the hand.

I'm enjoying the Pro and Blizz Katanas (they actually have given me a couple extra birdie looks on holes that are typically just outside my range), but I'm not sold yet on the mold overall. I just don't know if it is worth investing in a mold that is this inconsistent, unless you're planning on bagging multiples of it and making it your primary distance driver. It's a bit too fast for me to throw in anything other than wide open situations though, so it is clearly a situational disc rather than workhorse disc for my arm.

 

[GripEnemy]

Yeah, but this was a huge difference in flight and only 4g of weight difference. I think the bigger factor is that the beefy Champ Katana has a much higher PLH. It almost feels like a different mold in the hand.

I'm enjoying the Pro and Blizz Katanas (they actually have given me a couple extra birdie looks on holes that are typically just outside my range), but I'm not sold yet on the mold overall. I just don't know if it is worth investing in a mold that is this inconsistent, unless you're planning on bagging multiples of it and making it your primary distance driver. It's a bit too fast for me to throw in anything other than wide open situations though, so it is clearly a situational disc rather than workhorse disc for my arm.

Exactly what I do with Cannons. I have backups of each stability as well...think a Roc cycle with an actual overstable bookend

 

[KingCrab84]

Hey everyone. I could use some help with something Katana related so i figure this is the place. I read back about 12 pages but i still have questions..

I recently lost my absolute favorite disc of all time which was a tie dyed champion Katana (pretty old, probably at least 6 or 7 years). It took me a while but i dialed that thing in and i knew exactly how to tweak my throw to get it to do what i wanted. I could throw that thing about 50 feet further than i can my g star destroyer (my other go-to distance driver). The second it left my hand that thing was GONE.

When i lost it i immediately went out to purchase another one. I picked a 165g champion. Upon inspection immediately noticed a MAJOR difference between the two discs. The old katana had a completely flat bottom. The new one is mostly flat but when going from the outer diameter to the inner there is a slight lip that juts downward (away from the top). I knew right away i was dealing with something completely different and i wasn't wrong. I guess the phrase around here is "meat hook?" What a worthless disc. Just a hard fade right out of the hand, nothing special on the distance. I know it's not broken in yet but this is really disheartening.

So here we go:

1. What the hell is up with that lip on the bottom? is that standard operating procedure with all Katanas now? It certainly seemed to be the case at the store that i went to.

2. Do we feel that this impacts the disc significantly?

3. If not, what factor do you think determines whether the Katana will be a **** hook or a warp speed UFO?

4. Lastly, if anyone can point me in the direction of a "good" Katana i would be eternally grateful. It's taken a significant chunk of enjoyment out of my game that i really want to get back.

Thanks for reading.

 

[Twmccoy]

Hey everyone. I could use some help with something Katana related so i figure this is the place. I read back about 12 pages but i still have questions..

I recently lost my absolute favorite disc of all time which was a tie dyed champion Katana (pretty old, probably at least 6 or 7 years). It took me a while but i dialed that thing in and i knew exactly how to tweak my throw to get it to do what i wanted. I could throw that thing about 50 feet further than i can my g star destroyer (my other go-to distance driver). The second it left my hand that thing was GONE.

When i lost it i immediately went out to purchase another one. I picked a 165g champion. Upon inspection immediately noticed a MAJOR difference between the two discs. The old katana had a completely flat bottom. The new one is mostly flat but when going from the outer diameter to the inner there is a slight lip that juts downward (away from the top). I knew right away i was dealing with something completely different and i wasn't wrong. I guess the phrase around here is "meat hook?" What a worthless disc. Just a hard fade right out of the hand, nothing special on the distance. I know it's not broken in yet but this is really disheartening.

So here we go:

1. What the hell is up with that lip on the bottom? is that standard operating procedure with all Katanas now? It certainly seemed to be the case at the store that i went to.

2. Do we feel that this impacts the disc significantly?

3. If not, what factor do you think determines whether the Katana will be a **** hook or a warp speed UFO?

4. Lastly, if anyone can point me in the direction of a "good" Katana i would be eternally grateful. It's taken a significant chunk of enjoyment out of my game that i really want to get back.

Thanks for reading.

Generally, what determines a good vs. bad Katana for me is dome (or lack thereof). The flatter the Katana, the worse it'll fly. Flat Katanas tend to glide poorly and be really overstable.

The domier the better.

How far do you throw? Some Katanas will turn fairly easily, while others take quite a bit more work. Once you start going over 350' a Katana should turn decently.