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Oh you're right about 5 and 6. They cross as well...Perhaps Tom S. will have all this sorted out prior to worlds next year?
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Is there a CA curve??
- Thread starter sloppydisc
- Start date
Oh you're right about 5 and 6. They cross as well...Perhaps Tom S. will have all this sorted out prior to worlds next year?
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Like Karl says, if the locals really thought it through, I suspect you could completely redesign the whole 9-hole area around Top of the World and still have a hole like it that threw in direction maybe 45-90 degrees more to the right. But I understand the entrenched thinking. Dropping down to 24 or even 21 holes might help and have a few more par 4s in there. But then Worlds is supposed to have all 27 hole courses.
I've played...
- 8 courses in the SoCal Coast
- 9 courses in the Central Coast
- 3 courses in the North Coast
- 7 courses in the Central Valley
- 7 courses in the Sierra Foothills
- 3 courses in the Tahoe Region
- 0 courses in North North Central
- 0 courses in the Inland Empire
...obviously I need to play more of these before I can claim to speak for California disc golf in general.
But so far, how do these compare with other places I've been? Pretty favorably, actually, but it is only my preference and opinion...
The Tahoe region and Sierra Foothills together represent my favorite collection of disc golf courses in the entire nation (better than all of Oregon, IMHO). The terrain is so varied and spectacular, the flora is so diverse (every kind of tree imaginable), and the possibilities are truly endless.
The SoCal Coast is alright (Casitas & Sylmar are my favorites), but there are so many people living there and hardly any courses relative to the population size. And you never feel like you're "getting away from it all" in SoCal Coast courses, there are always crowds and lots of activity. I really feel bad for people stuck at Morley Field in San Diego, where there really aren't any other worthwhile courses for like 100 miles (although I did hear about a new course around Escondido, which should help a lot). No wonder they're so sensitive about the reviews...I also received the most negative votes on my own review of Morley (4 thumbs down), so this isn't anything new.
The North Coast is such a wonderful area to be, in general, and the vibe at places like Anderson Valley Brew Co is hard to beat (going there for a tournament this weekend!). Everyone knows about Stafford and Napa, but there is a lot of great territory to explore further north.
The Central Valley has some surprisingly good disc golf, if you get out and try these courses. Next time you're going north or south in California, take highway 99 instead of I-5, and stop in Stockton, Visalia, Hart Park, etc.. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. The locals also play and help maintain the Sierra foothills courses, especially in the summer.
The Central Coast is another great region for disc golf, with gems like DeLaveaga, Golden Gate, Waller Pines, etc..
Anyways, I feel like I have the best of all worlds for a California disc golfer, living in the Sacramento area (Shady Oaks is my home course). I can be at Tahoe in just an hour. Dozens of spectacular foothills courses are even closer. The bay area is only 1.5 hours away, and many courses in the central and north coast are only 2-ish hours drive. I don't think any other location in California offers the same variety.
- 8 courses in the SoCal Coast
- 9 courses in the Central Coast
- 3 courses in the North Coast
- 7 courses in the Central Valley
- 7 courses in the Sierra Foothills
- 3 courses in the Tahoe Region
- 0 courses in North North Central
- 0 courses in the Inland Empire
...obviously I need to play more of these before I can claim to speak for California disc golf in general.
But so far, how do these compare with other places I've been? Pretty favorably, actually, but it is only my preference and opinion...
The Tahoe region and Sierra Foothills together represent my favorite collection of disc golf courses in the entire nation (better than all of Oregon, IMHO). The terrain is so varied and spectacular, the flora is so diverse (every kind of tree imaginable), and the possibilities are truly endless.
The SoCal Coast is alright (Casitas & Sylmar are my favorites), but there are so many people living there and hardly any courses relative to the population size. And you never feel like you're "getting away from it all" in SoCal Coast courses, there are always crowds and lots of activity. I really feel bad for people stuck at Morley Field in San Diego, where there really aren't any other worthwhile courses for like 100 miles (although I did hear about a new course around Escondido, which should help a lot). No wonder they're so sensitive about the reviews...I also received the most negative votes on my own review of Morley (4 thumbs down), so this isn't anything new.
The North Coast is such a wonderful area to be, in general, and the vibe at places like Anderson Valley Brew Co is hard to beat (going there for a tournament this weekend!). Everyone knows about Stafford and Napa, but there is a lot of great territory to explore further north.
The Central Valley has some surprisingly good disc golf, if you get out and try these courses. Next time you're going north or south in California, take highway 99 instead of I-5, and stop in Stockton, Visalia, Hart Park, etc.. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. The locals also play and help maintain the Sierra foothills courses, especially in the summer.
The Central Coast is another great region for disc golf, with gems like DeLaveaga, Golden Gate, Waller Pines, etc..
Anyways, I feel like I have the best of all worlds for a California disc golfer, living in the Sacramento area (Shady Oaks is my home course). I can be at Tahoe in just an hour. Dozens of spectacular foothills courses are even closer. The bay area is only 1.5 hours away, and many courses in the central and north coast are only 2-ish hours drive. I don't think any other location in California offers the same variety.
Yes, I would consider that blasphemy. DeLaveaga is like our golden standard, it is how we measure ourselves and our abilities as disc golfers over time. We keep coming back to the same 27 signature holes (only 1 or 2 of them have changed, owing to environmental concerns). The first time we play it, we're at 40 over par, or something crazy like that. After many years of play and practice, we might just be getting our score down to par.
The same goes for the pros...every California disc golfer dreams about Ken Climo's -34 (over 3 rounds) at DeLaveaga. This is the stuff of legend, it is our sacred cow.
If you change the course, all this goes away, and the slate is wiped clean. This aggression will not stand, man.
Who cares if 5-6 and 13-16 have crossing fairways? I don't; nor do the grizzled veterans who built this cathedral of disc golf. And what would it be like to hang out at DeLa if the occasional shanked throw didn't come sailing into the parking lot from 27?
I love it! This is all part of the atmosphere, guys, and I'm sorry if you don't get it.
I will admit, however, that course upkeep and maintenance had been falling a bit over the last couple years, and improvements needed to be made on some tees and signage as well. With the Worlds coming next year, the course overhaul has already begun...just wait, she'll be back to her old self in no time!
Thumbs Up for Cali!
Here in Chicagoland, the "mecca" of poor course design...we have a TON of short, deuce or die courses. Although I enjoy some of these courses for the memories and the friends, a "Chicagoland quality" course does not compare favorably to Cali in any way, shape or form.
I visited the Left Coast last year and took a solo road trip from LA to Novato, I had ZERO desire to come back here and play the home courses.
FWIW, I have also played in the Arizona desert, FLA, Kentucky, etc, etc....I still prefer the Left coast. One of these days I will get back there, start at Stafford Lake and head north. Maybe I will be lucky enough to stay more than a week in Disc Golf Utopia.
Here in Chicagoland, the "mecca" of poor course design...we have a TON of short, deuce or die courses. Although I enjoy some of these courses for the memories and the friends, a "Chicagoland quality" course does not compare favorably to Cali in any way, shape or form.
I visited the Left Coast last year and took a solo road trip from LA to Novato, I had ZERO desire to come back here and play the home courses.
FWIW, I have also played in the Arizona desert, FLA, Kentucky, etc, etc....I still prefer the Left coast. One of these days I will get back there, start at Stafford Lake and head north. Maybe I will be lucky enough to stay more than a week in Disc Golf Utopia.
mabraddock
Birdie Member
sorry all, west michigan has the best disc golf anywhere... i ve seen a lot of cali players come out here and find out they aren't as good as they thought...
*puts down can of lighter fluid*
just sayin
and jasonc ... four hour drive to flip city from chitown... it is summer
*puts down can of lighter fluid*
just sayin
and jasonc ... four hour drive to flip city from chitown... it is summer
Try Iowa sometime. Its a hell of a lot closer.
Lots of good points. The one thing I thought is maybe the courses in the more metropolitan areas get 'protected' or overrated a little due to some of the players not playing many other courses, or simply playing those courses so many times. Plus those courses get hammered with more non-disc golf users. The locals are probably used to it, and it doesn't affect their game. Us redneck tourists aren't used to dealing with some of those distractions so we in some measure hold it against the course. I guess both points of view are valid. We just come at it from different perspectives. Hopefully CA can keep adding new courses that are separate from those evil non DG park users.
This door swings two ways...
People here in NC (at least where I'm at) are mortified at the idea of having "shared use". When bringing up ideas for new course locations, they are always shot down because people are worried that it's not a DG only atmosphere.
Being from CA, I see potential in all sorts of places. I'm totally used to a group of soccer players or picnickers occasionally being in the way.
So... hopefully CA can get some more DG only courses... and hopefully NC (at least where I'm at) can lighten up a little bit and install some more courses in places where other people might occasionally be.
DSCJNKY
having DG only areas in CA could only be in a pay to play environment, ie. state park, county park... land is at a premium out west compared to the east coast, and lets face it, east coast participation and public opinion in DG is far bigger and better than on the west coast.
I haven't ever played in Cali, but have played in CO(in the Rockies and the eastern plains) and in NM. I have looked at alot of the "top" courses in Cali, hole info, pics, course maps, etc.
As far as DSCJNKY's statement earlier, I might think to take it a step farther...
Top 5 courses in Charlotte, NC better than the top 5 in all of Cali?
Sounds awefully possible. I haven't been a fan of living in Charlotte since moving here 3 years ago, but everyday I am thankful for the top quality courses we have around here. A few of the courses that I would call "better than average" courses are rated 2.5-3...and when I play other courses in other areas it seems the Charlotte ratings are based more upon others in the region, as opposed to being rated based on the whole grand scheme of things. Is this just me?
I would somewhat agree with this, but I haven't seen enough courses to completely agree. Three of the six courses I played in Florida are rated at 4 discs, but I don't think they would be rated that highly if they were here in NC.
I've said it before somewhere that one of the things that hurts the Charlotte courses is that none of them are very pretty. Renny is built on an old landfill for instance, with a huge powerline running right through it. Elon, Hornet's Nest, and Kilborne don't look a whole lot better. We also don't have any courses that play along large bodies of water.
True true.
I'll tell you that I have played the most picturesque course in CO(Hewlett Packard in Colorado Springs). The course isn't what makes it, but the constant view of Pikes Peak and the range to the west is enough to allow you to enjoy even the worst round of disc golf.
I don't think its necessary to have "breath-taking" scenery to be pretty. And I have played some pretty courses that I feel have a very unimaginative layout. I can imagine that the scenery is there out west, but this doesn't mean top quality.
I do think that some of what is limiting Cali courses is that most of your older courses are located out there, and with past technologies courses were naturally shorter and maybe a little repetitive.
And...although Charlotte may not have the "prettiest" courses in all the land, they may be as technical as any other region in the country. Its way more than just going out and slinging a disc around here to shoot well. Sugaw, the Nest, Renny, Nevin, Elong, and even Reedy all prove this.
I'll tell you that I have played the most picturesque course in CO(Hewlett Packard in Colorado Springs). The course isn't what makes it, but the constant view of Pikes Peak and the range to the west is enough to allow you to enjoy even the worst round of disc golf.
I don't think its necessary to have "breath-taking" scenery to be pretty. And I have played some pretty courses that I feel have a very unimaginative layout. I can imagine that the scenery is there out west, but this doesn't mean top quality.
I do think that some of what is limiting Cali courses is that most of your older courses are located out there, and with past technologies courses were naturally shorter and maybe a little repetitive.
And...although Charlotte may not have the "prettiest" courses in all the land, they may be as technical as any other region in the country. Its way more than just going out and slinging a disc around here to shoot well. Sugaw, the Nest, Renny, Nevin, Elong, and even Reedy all prove this.
Star Shark
* Ace Member *
Even though DG kind of originated here in SoCal there are still tons of people out there who have no idea what it is. I've seen people use baskets as barbecue grills by hanging meat in the chains and filling up the cage with tinfoil and charcoal. Land in SoCal at least is way too valuable to waste on a public park, let alone one where it's hazardous to picnic so it's very difficult to get courses put in anywhere.
Sylmar and Huntington Beach are the only pay to play DG only courses that I'm aware of aroiund here, but there are still occasional problems with people picnicking under baskets even though there are signs in 2 languages within 50' of where this happens. I've seen weddings held at both courses without permission because they didn't know it was a seperate section of the park. The courses are pay to play due to the land being leased from the park system. Huntington is a far more active course than Sylmar is and probably makes quite a bit more money simply due to its location. The money coming in to Sylmar is used to work on the course constantly. New basket positions, recently Pro teepads and a fair bit of landscaping help this course be the best in the area, in my opinion. I honestly haven't seen Huntington change at all in the few years I've been going there.
Sylmar and Huntington Beach are the only pay to play DG only courses that I'm aware of aroiund here, but there are still occasional problems with people picnicking under baskets even though there are signs in 2 languages within 50' of where this happens. I've seen weddings held at both courses without permission because they didn't know it was a seperate section of the park. The courses are pay to play due to the land being leased from the park system. Huntington is a far more active course than Sylmar is and probably makes quite a bit more money simply due to its location. The money coming in to Sylmar is used to work on the course constantly. New basket positions, recently Pro teepads and a fair bit of landscaping help this course be the best in the area, in my opinion. I honestly haven't seen Huntington change at all in the few years I've been going there.
- Joined
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- Messages
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Having just played Dela, I can tell you that the course ain't gonna change before worlds. Regardless of the crossing fairways or errant shots going into the parking lot, the course is nasty. And nasty as in it tests every shot in the book and will test your will on the putting green.
Friction
Par Member
:hfive::thmbup::clap:
My paradigm/biases: Learned to play in NC, have played a bunch in the Southeastern region of the US, and now live in NorCal.
that said -
Let me explain DeLa for my fellow ACC-land people who have never played it. Cameron Indoor Stadium. Remember last time Duke wanted to build a brand-spanking-new arena with all the glitz, glamour, bells, and whistles for their elite basketball program? The students, alumni, and fans all but rioted. DeLaveaga is DG's Cameron Indoor Stadium, it has been around for the majority of the time that organized disc golf has existed. It may be in slight disrepair, and not in 100% optimal logistic and efficient shape/design, but damned if it doesn't have that special atmosphere. It has that exact same special atmosphere to disc golfers that make people drop $2000 per ticket for a top row seat in a stadium that holds less than some larger high schools. It has that same challenge for the opponents that makes 5-star recruits knees tremble when the Cameron Crazies get going. If you dont' believe me, check out the 2010 masters cup scoreboard - at how many respectable and elite disc golfers finished over par (even some locals). The holes weren't modified.
It's one of those special places that should never change, will probably not change anytime soon, and you never forget time spent there.
---
As for who has the best courses? That's a hard one, but surprisingly nobody has even put Texas in the running? or did I miss that nominating post?
that said -
Let me explain DeLa for my fellow ACC-land people who have never played it. Cameron Indoor Stadium. Remember last time Duke wanted to build a brand-spanking-new arena with all the glitz, glamour, bells, and whistles for their elite basketball program? The students, alumni, and fans all but rioted. DeLaveaga is DG's Cameron Indoor Stadium, it has been around for the majority of the time that organized disc golf has existed. It may be in slight disrepair, and not in 100% optimal logistic and efficient shape/design, but damned if it doesn't have that special atmosphere. It has that exact same special atmosphere to disc golfers that make people drop $2000 per ticket for a top row seat in a stadium that holds less than some larger high schools. It has that same challenge for the opponents that makes 5-star recruits knees tremble when the Cameron Crazies get going. If you dont' believe me, check out the 2010 masters cup scoreboard - at how many respectable and elite disc golfers finished over par (even some locals). The holes weren't modified.
It's one of those special places that should never change, will probably not change anytime soon, and you never forget time spent there.
---
As for who has the best courses? That's a hard one, but surprisingly nobody has even put Texas in the running? or did I miss that nominating post?
DutchViking
Par Member
Bravo JTacoma03! They should never change De Lavaega. Hallowed Ground! De La is the ORIGINAL GOLD STANDARD and is a very tough course. It needs a little love in the tee signs but other than that it looks and plays great.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Following that logic, players should continue to play it only with disc models approved before say 1990 so it continues to play closer to the way it was designed.
- Joined
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They've lengthened it. Hole 1 has a new tee and and a deep position. Hole 25 has an evil uphill pin location on a steep slope. 23 has a brutal downhill position with an impossibly steep slope behind the blind pin. So they've taken some steps. Regardless, the course still plays tough even with speed 13 discs. The reason? The nastiest pin locations I've ever seen (throughout an entire course). There are few places to feel comfortable putting. This leads of course to shanked putts, rollaways, and all kinds of misadventures. The course can cause a leading pro, like Nikko, to completely lose his mind and his game and send him from leading a tournament to thirteenth place in a jiffy:
http://www.pdga.com/tournament-results?TournID=9644
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