John Houck came to Hindman in Little Rock...

[johnrhouck]

He charged the GC for his latest course design (outside of New Orleans) $1000 per basket. So there's that...he's marking up equipment on top of the design fee.

For reference, most companies will sell you their flagship model at around $325.

That is 100% absolutely untrue, and ridiculous on top of it. Please check your source and then correct this absurd statement. Thanks.

 

[johnrhouck]

He charged the GC for his latest course design (outside of New Orleans) $1000 per basket. So there's that...he's marking up equipment on top of the design fee.

For reference, most companies will sell you their flagship model at around $325.

I'm on my phone. Sorry if this posts twice.

This statement is entirely untrue and ridiculous. Maybe the GC charged the Parish that much, but our policy is to charge our clients the same price they would get from the manufacturer. Please retract this absurd statement, and please make sure it doesn't happen again. Thanks.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

opcorn:

 

[rd.bittle]

I'm on my phone. Sorry if this posts twice.

This statement is entirely untrue and ridiculous. Maybe the GC charged the Parish that much, but our policy is to charge our clients the same price they would get from the manufacturer. Please retract this absurd statement, and please make sure it doesn't happen again. Thanks.

He's lurking. Lol

 

[JTacoma03]

That is 100% absolutely untrue, and ridiculous on top of it. Please check your source and then correct this absurd statement. Thanks.

See attached. Someone sold targets for $1k. Either way it's gouging my home state which is significantly in the red in terms of a budget.


ETA: attachment problems, hold tight

2nd ETA: DGCR doesn't seem to allow PDF uploads. Here's a link to download for yourself

 

[rd.bittle]

Attached?

 

[Cgkdisc]

See attached. Someone sold targets for $1k. Either way it's gouging my home state which is significantly in the red in terms of a budget.


ETA: attachment problems, hold tight

2nd ETA: DGCR doesn't seem to allow PDF uploads. Here's a link to download for yourself

Looks like the construction company indicated in the bid their "estimate" of what the targets were going to cost, not what they actually paid?

 

[Mocheez]

See attached. Someone sold targets for $1k. Either way it's gouging my home state which is significantly in the red in terms of a budget.


ETA: attachment problems, hold tight

2nd ETA: DGCR doesn't seem to allow PDF uploads. Here's a link to download for yourself

Be careful JT. You are a representative of DiscGolfPark and you are accusing a competitor of "gouging" the State of Louisiana.

 

[markmcc]

See attached. Someone sold targets for $1k. Either way it's gouging my home state which is significantly in the red in terms of a budget.


ETA: attachment problems, hold tight

2nd ETA: DGCR doesn't seem to allow PDF uploads. Here's a link to download for yourself

We had this discussion in another thread. It is not the least bit uncommon for a general contractor to mark up items by 200 - 300% to account for overhead, installation, profit, and all of those other things that it costs to actually run a business. To think that the baskets are going into the ground for the cost of the basket is just naive.

 

[JTacoma03]

Be careful JT. You are a representative of DiscGolfPark and you are accusing a competitor of "gouging" the State of Louisiana.

$19k for 19 targets is gouging. Maybe John didn't personally do it as the subcontractor. Maybe it was the GC making up their own prices with no input whatsoever from a subcontractor. Either way I'm interested to hear what Mr. Houck has to say.

I would hope that NO designer is undertaking those actions, and I would hope that if John knew about it he would go to the GC and explain how harmful this practice is. Now the government of Jefferson Parish believes that this is what courses cost, and it will be hard to convince them otherwise if they wanted to expand, which I predict will be prohibitive anyway given the budget situation, and moreso if they believe things cost 3x what they really do.

As someone who spent 2 years trying to get a FREE course greenlit in East Baton Rouge Parish, I can personally vouch for the difficulty of dealing with bureaucrats when their minds are made up, even if their minds are made up based on alternative facts.

The bottom line is, I don't think what happened is right, and Houck is the named attached to the decisions behind the equipment and design. Maybe John's side of events exonerates him, I'll hear him out on it.

 

[JTacoma03]

We had this discussion in another thread. It is not the least bit uncommon for a general contractor to mark up items by 200 - 300% to account for overhead, installation, profit, and all of those other things that it costs to actually run a business. To think that the baskets are going into the ground for the cost of the basket is just naive.

Whether it's uncommon or not doesn't make it justifiable or correct practice. The GC doesn't need to mark up B2C equipment sales. The parish Parks & Rec dept. can easily pay to have the gear shipped to their warehouse and the GC crew can pick it up and use it.

Honestly, you don't need a GC to do course installation in the first place. You may need a GC and LA to move the dirt and sculpt the park, but not for the direct installation of a course. I can guarantee this from experience, I'm working on my 4th install in 3 years currently.

 

[markmcc]

The Parish Parks & Rec dept chose to contract the entire thing out, no? So the GC is going to mark things up, make a profit, bid items the way that he wants (which may or may not reflect the cost of the items), etc. That is not an uncommon way of getting things built. You do understand that is an installed price, right?? Do you think that trash cans also cost $1000??

But to claim that John Houck is charging $1000 per basket is completely inaccurate. If you have a beef you've got it with the Parish.

 

[JTacoma03]

The Parish Parks & Rec dept chose to contract the entire thing out, no? So the GC is going to mark things up, make a profit, bid items the way that he wants (which may or may not reflect the cost of the items), etc. That is not an uncommon way of getting things built. You do understand that is an installed price, right?? Do you think that trash cans also cost $1000??

But to claim that John Houck is charging $1000 per basket is completely inaccurate. If you have a beef you've got it with the Parish.

Fair enough, and if I'm wrong about Houck's involvement specifics I'll own it and move forward. Either way it's good to have transparency in this process. I was a subcontractor for a park in Wake County, NC (that our GC dropped, bummer) and to my knowledge this was not part of their plan so it surprised me when I saw it.

As I said, I really don't care what the common way is. A GC has no business marking up a basket 300% for "profit and overhead".

I'm gonna look out for my home state and my disc golf community and speak up if something looks wrong, that part of it I won't apologize for. If I called out John incorrectly then amends will be made, I'll wait to hear his side.

 

[NDABRUSH]

Larger population often means fewer courses due to more pressure on land use.

Then that is why around here we have more new courses in state parks where the land wasn't really being used much and in some rural towns parks that already existed. We also had a new 9 holer next to some boat dock.

 

[MikeK]

Fair enough, and if I'm wrong about Houck's involvement specifics I'll own it and move forward. Either way it's good to have transparency in this process. I was a subcontractor for a park in Wake County, NC (that our GC dropped, bummer) and to my knowledge this was not part of their plan so it surprised me when I saw it.

As I said, I really don't care what the common way is. A GC has no business marking up a basket 300% for "profit and overhead".

I'm gonna look out for my home state and my disc golf community and speak up if something looks wrong, that part of it I won't apologize for. If I called out John incorrectly then amends will be made, I'll wait to hear his side.

You're way way way off base here and you will be eating not only a big bowl of crow, with a side of your own foot jam in your mouth, you'll be eating your words for many meals once this is over.

I'm not sure what your motivation is here because your explanation that "Jefferson Parish will think future disc golf courses will cost this much" is about as stupid and naive as I can imagine. So the state is broke, so what? Our federal government is even more broke. Yeah, they blew a lot of money on the course, and the contractor made out like a bandit. So what?

Why lash out at Houck when you're so clueless about who made the big profit off this course?

 

[BionicRib]

Be careful JT. You are a representative of DiscGolfPark and you are accusing a competitor of "gouging" the State of Louisiana.

Nah....He's just setting up another episode of the upshot......

 

[MikeK]

Now the government of Jefferson Parish believes that this is what courses cost, and it will be hard to convince them otherwise if they wanted to expand, which I predict will be prohibitive anyway given the budget situation, and moreso if they believe things cost 3x what they really do.

Dumb. Do you really think you can speak for what the government of JP thinks? I know there's parts of the government of JP that think a disc golf course costs next to nothing, because at the other course in Jefferson Parish, the government has spent a grand total of $1960 over the last 34 years on its 24-basket course! (All other upgrades including new concrete pads and 17 baskets were paid for by the local club).

I'm sure there's at least a couple bureaucrats who can look at one course costing nothing and another costing 675,000 and they'll be smart enough to realize future courses can still be built for peanuts. But don't let that stop you Jamie from being a dramatic little beeyotch by accusing Houck of price gouging when you have no proof, no clue, and no sense to STFU until you have the actual facts, and assuming that Jefferson Parish won't build another course because of cost.

Stick to broadcasting Jamie.

 

[jblaze10]

Fair enough, and if I'm wrong about Houck's involvement specifics I'll own it and move forward. Either way it's good to have transparency in this process. I was a subcontractor for a park in Wake County, NC (that our GC dropped, bummer) and to my knowledge this was not part of their plan so it surprised me when I saw it.

As I said, I really don't care what the common way is. A GC has no business marking up a basket 300% for "profit and overhead".

I'm gonna look out for my home state and my disc golf community and speak up if something looks wrong, that part of it I won't apologize for. If I called out John incorrectly then amends will be made, I'll wait to hear his side.

Seems to me the fault is with the person who agreed with the price enough to sign a contract. Also would you mind sharing the courses you have designed so I can avoid them please.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

 

[johnrhouck]

... I'll wait to hear his side.

Jamie, I don't really have a "side." Just some simple facts about Parc Des Familles.

1. We were a subcontractor for the Engineering Firm, not the GC.

2. The GC bought baskets from us. We charged them $325 per basket, which is the same price they would have gotten from the manufacturer.

And there you have it.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

He charged the GC for his latest course design (outside of New Orleans) $1000 per basket. So there's that...he's marking up equipment on top of the design fee.

That is 100% absolutely untrue, and ridiculous on top of it. Please check your source and then correct this absurd statement. Thanks.

Fair enough, and if I'm wrong about Houck's involvement specifics I'll own it and move forward.

Jamie, I don't really have a "side." Just some simple facts about Parc Des Familles.

1. We were a subcontractor for the Engineering Firm, not the GC.

2. The GC bought baskets from us. We charged them $325 per basket, which is the same price they would have gotten from the manufacturer.

JT this is a bad look man. You are one of the very few with media influence. People trust you to provide them with accurate disc golf news and information. I guess Ultiworld is turning into Fox news