Kansas City crowd: pay to play?

[Mfrench]

Given the sterling rep of Waterworks and a handful of other above average courses around KC, would a well done pay to play have any chance?

 

[Sadjo]

It would. In the twin cities there are several great courses and a half dozen pay to plays that do well.

 

[roadtripstuff]

If its a good course and the price is right I would say yes. We have 6-7 courses within 20-30 minutes of me and only one is pay to play. Granted it's only $1.50 a round, but its also and pitch and putt, but also is one of the busiest courses around. So if the price to play suites the course well/is a good value, then i see no reason why it wouldn't work.

 

[DavidSauls]

It depends in part of your definition of "have a chance".

If you mean adding a course to existing property, public or private, and receiving enough entry fees to cover costs over a few years, probably---if the right course, in the right location.

If you mean getting some play and additional income, without covering installation costs, yes.

If you mean enough revenue to cover purchase of land, and/or generate much income for the owner, that's a much higher hurdle.

 

[scarpfish]

The 3 course complex being built up at Smithville Lake (Paradise Pointe) is Pay-to-Play. Old Pike Country Club also went to a $50/year membership model. I do not know how well either project is doing.

 

[mashnut]

Check out the Sabattus complex in Maine for a place that has figured out how to make disc golf profitable. They've marketed themselves to the family crowd, and they say they're pulling in 1500 players a week (and aren't in a huge population base).

 

[Steve West]

It would. In the twin cities there are several great courses and a half dozen pay to plays that do well.

{At least 10, but that's not the point.}

Here's a map of Kansas City, with the darkest areas being the places in most need of a course (think "holes to fill").

 

[scarpfish]

Here's a map of Kansas City, with the darkest areas being the places in most need of a course (think "holes to fill").

Unless a country club goes under (and there are about four of them in that area), I can assure you the chances of a disc golf course going into that dark spot are slim to none for the exact same reason that said area is dark.

 

[MrHighlandPark]

Believe it or not, some people prefer pay courses. For the (upper?) middle class, $5-10 to play a round of golf is nothing, and it generally means you don't have to smell pot or look at discarded beer bottles on the course. Call it "keeping out the riff raff," and laugh at the snootiness if you want, but this is absolutely a key component of ball golf's appeal to an even higher income bracket.

The presence of free courses will not doom pay to plays.

 

[Steve West]

Unless a country club goes under (and there are about four of them in that area), I can assure you the chances of a disc golf course going into that dark spot are slim to none for the exact same reason that said area is dark.

Yep, being covered with houses is both a blessing and a curse.

But, hey! You've identified four potential spots already. A golf course doesn't need to go under to add disc golf. There are a couple dozen examples of that.

Or, look at the land around California Trail. Why wouldn't those farms be willing to lease the wooded drainages in the middle of their fields?

And if it can't go in the darkest area, then look in the next-darkest areas.

I estimate there are 183 square miles of land where a new disc golf course would work out.

 

[keepDGobscure]

I've lived in both Kansas City and Minneapolis. While both metro areas have great courses, the attitudes around the game seem to be radically different. In the twin cities, pay to play keeps the courses free of s***heads, trash, and crowds for the most part. Somebody has to take care of the courses though, and there is a lack of local clubs in the twin cities, so pay to play works in that money is brought in to take care of the courses.

Kansas City, however, has arguably the best disc club in the country. The club members take pride in the courses and they have a great working relationship with the city governments. The KCFDC message board is incredibly active and serves to bring volunteers out to maintain the courses. The pins get changed out regularly and projects are always in the works. A private company certainly has the right to install a pay to play course, but if a course is in the works somewhere in the KC metro, KCFDC is probably on it, making sure everything is going down properly.

While a few of the local clubs in the twin cities are active and take pride in their course (lakewood hills course at white bear lake for example), the clubs are not very organized and don't seem to do much other than run leagues. The Minnesota Frisbee Association may be one of the oldest disc associations around, but they don't have a say in what goes on in local courses, events, etc. Twin Cities disc golf, IMO, is run like a business. Because people are used to that there, they accept it and it works out. KCFDC may be run like a business, but it is a NON-profit made to promote the sport.

So, would a pay to play go down well in KC? not in my opinion, which i hope is right

 

[keepDGobscure]

I would also like to add that Swope Park in KC was one of the first pay to play courses. That was before my time though. It has been free to play for at least 15 years, I assume once they covered the cost of the course install and clubhouse. So, will pay to play work in KC? I guess now my answer is: it did

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think you'll find after 5-10 years is the Twin Cities continues to be just a bit ahead of the curve in the sport as they have been over the years.

 

[keepDGobscure]

I think you'll find after 5-10 years is the Twin Cities continues to be just a bit ahead of the curve in the sport as they have been over the years.

Want to put some money on it? In 5-10 years we can meet at Kaposia/North Valley and there still won't be signs, erosion control or flags on the pins.

 

[kcplease]

so, im not sure who owns the land, but at about 71st between quivira and pflumm there is an abandoned golf course. if the city of Shawnee would get on board, there is amazing potential for 2 championship caliber courses. there is plenty of elevation and trees and some water. it could seriously be another Jones Park in the middle of suburbia. and its close to my house

 

[Cgkdisc]

keepDGobscure - Want to put some money on it? In 5-10 years we can meet at Kaposia/North Valley and there still won't be signs, erosion control or flags on the pins.

More likely you pay for my round at one of the pay for play courses in the KC area. Park departments talk, budgets will continue to be pinched, more pay to play courses will be added and free courses converted.

 

[Steve West]

so, im not sure who owns the land, but at about 71st between quivira and pflumm there is an abandoned golf course. if the city of Shawnee would get on board, there is amazing potential for 2 championship caliber courses. there is plenty of elevation and trees and some water. it could seriously be another Jones Park in the middle of suburbia. and its close to my house

You'd better mount a "keep the green space" campaign. It's all zoned for single-family residences.

 

[scarpfish]

I really wouldn't mind seeing a pay for play facility in KC, particularly if it is a multi-course complex, like the one being built up at Smithville Lake, and managed by the club, and if revenues were sufficient enough, some of the proceeds could be used to facilitate maintenance on the free courses.

That being said, I've never found the existing courses (except for Rosedale) particularly crowded except for weekends.

 

[dickparker]

All three courses are in the ground at Smithville Lake, and now are waiting to be dressed with teepads and signage. If you have any questions about the project feel free to ask.

I really believe that the $5 PER CAR that they request for entrance is well worth it. 3 courses, a marina, fishing, a bar/restaurant, and public beach with showers is a pretty good deal.

The golf is fun, and the views are remarkable. I highly suggest you check it out if your in the area!

Dick