Lloyd Weema article in Ultiworld Disc Golf

[_MTL_]

This issue as it relates specifically to World's makes sense if you look at where they have moved the event.

A few years ago I remember this same issue being addressed and somebody (I think it was Graham) conceded that World's was more of a big party for the membership than it was a competitive event. It was a big get-together with a big flymart and party atmosphere, especially the combined Pro/Am World's. The point that was being conceded was that they couldn't do something like limit registration since there was no support from the membership to cancel the party.

While this is true - the family reunion aspect - the reason pro and am were split were almost all logistically based. 2012 (last pro am combined) was a bit of cluster and the PDGA said yeah, no more of this.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

The new generation of human is more introverted and doesn't really care about socializing, in fact they think it's weird to talk to people. Sad truth. They view disc golf as a means to compete and to watch on their smartphones in their lifeless apartments because they refuse to buy a house lol

The old days of fun and enjoying one anothers company are over

thank you new generation for destroying Lloyd.....his blood is on your hands

I am actually an older guy and I really enjoy the company of the younger players. Most are good guys who enjoy socializing. Many of the "old guard" like to turn in their cards and leave. I find the situation to be exactly opposite of what you describe.

 

[Dcinmd]

Your rights end when they impinge on others rights. If a league starts on holes 1-9, then you need to start elsewhere. If you jump in the middle you are a world class jerk, reserved course or not. It really is that simple. If some folks are playing full court basketball at a public park and you want to practice free throws, what do you do? Do you barge on the court and tell them you have the right to shoot when and where you want? Not a recipe for success in my opinion.

That funny because at my private gym there are about 5 to 10 guys shooting 3 pointers on one end of the floor while the full court game is on the other end of the floor. And there is even professional athletes and gym employees involved. GASPS. And they all make it work.

At least you got one point correct in your paragraph. "Your rights end when they impinge on other rights, even if its a league."

 

[BigDickHyzer]

That funny because at my private gym there are about 5 to 10 guys shooting 3 pointers on one end of the floor while the full court game is on the other end of the floor. And there is even professional athletes and gym employees involved. GASPS. And they all make it work.

At least you got one point correct in your paragraph. "Your rights end when they impinge on other rights, even if its a league."

I wonder if ballgolfconvert is aware that he's the "Weema" of this thread.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

The new generation of human is more introverted and doesn't really care about socializing, in fact they think it's weird to talk to people. Sad truth. They view disc golf as a means to compete and to watch on their smartphones in their lifeless apartments because they refuse to buy a house lol

The old days of fun and enjoying one anothers company are over

thank you new generation for destroying Lloyd.....his blood is on your hands

 

[keepitfun]

haha this was the reaction I was looking for :clap:

 

[Three Putt]

While this is true - the family reunion aspect - the reason pro and am were split were almost all logistically based. 2012 (last pro am combined) was a bit of cluster and the PDGA said yeah, no more of this.

There certainly were issues, especially with the combined events. The combined events were a really popular idea with hosts since Pro World's was a money loser and Am World's was a money maker, and they were popular with at least Am players since they got to be where the pro players were. They were logistic nightmares, though. There were plenty of reasons to say that the sport had outgrown the ability to do that anymore.

That's not really why the age-protected divisions were peeled off and the number of rounds reduced so they play one round a day. There are reasons for those things as well, but different reasons.

You gain stuff and lose stuff in the transitions. Back in '90 you could sign up for an event and play Am, play four rounds on one course and have people like Sam Ferrans playing in the same event. Everybody would hang out in the parking lot between rounds eating PB & J's and Sam Ferrans would be there like everybody else. The scene was so small that you could run an event that could cater to Sam Ferrans and me in the same place at the same time.

You can't do that anymore. The expectations of what we are going to provide for Paul McBeth has been moved much higher than what Sam Ferrans could expect. We gain things with that movement like more and better courses, Aces on ESPN and more professional events with better payouts for touring pros, but you lose that small family aspect where all of us were discs golfers, we were all in the same boat and Sam Ferrans and I were part of the same thing.

Now there is more of a "pro disc golf thing" and a "the rest of us disc golf thing." I don't really see that as good or bad, just how it is. I'm not in any way part of whatever is going on at World's or NT's or DGPT events anymore. That they are officially saying they don't want me to sign up isn't that big a deal to me; I already knew that.

 

[_MTL_]

The new generation of human is more introverted and doesn't really care about socializing, in fact they think it's weird to talk to people. Sad truth. They view disc golf as a means to compete and to watch on their smartphones in their lifeless apartments because they refuse to buy a house lol

The old days of fun and enjoying one anothers company are over

thank you new generation for destroying Lloyd.....his blood is on your hands

We also hear that the new generation of human wants everyone to get recognition and everyone gets a trophy and this certainly goes against that notion.

 

[Hampstead]

Let's not forget that it was an older generation of humans giving out all those trophies to the new generation. But I digress.

 

[Cgkdisc]

This issue as it relates specifically to World's makes sense if you look at where they have moved the event.

A few years ago I remember this same issue being addressed and somebody (I think it was Graham) conceded that World's was more of a big party for the membership than it was a competitive event. It was a big get-together with a big flymart and party atmosphere, especially the combined Pro/Am World's. The point that was being conceded was that they couldn't do something like limit registration since there was no support from the membership to cancel the party.

Then a few years ago they canceled the party. Age-protected divisions were peeled off. The focus became squarely on the competitors. World's mirrored USDGC except with a Women's division. They managed to do that without much of an outcry, which surprised me a bit. The entire event was fundamentally changed; fewer course, fewer rounds, fewer divisions...and everybody seems OK with it.

Since the party is cancelled and Lloyd Weema didn't get the memo and keeps showing up for it, it really doesn't surprise me at all that they are taking the step to uninvite him. If you are OK with where World's has moved to as an event over the last 4ish years, you are OK with a move to a more "professional" event and cutting sub 900 rated players shouldn't really be an issue.

Another less obvious reason for the split except to those involved in running these events was the range of courses required to properly challenge the range of skill levels present and also the difference in the amount of time it would take to play those rounds on 2-round days.

The little recognized problem that remains tangentially related to the Weema issue is only a small percentage of PDGA members can realistically both qualify, get in and contend in any of the World Championships run each year. At least the women have Intermediate, Rec and Novice women divisions in their US championships and their biannual global event. But even though we also have Intermediate, Rec and Novice "mixed" divisions based on ratings breaks, there are no Worlds or global championships offered that are more accessible for players like Weema who's still above 700 rating. For example, even though it's only two events where your age and handicap range matter, ball golf does at least offer their men's and women's Mid-Amateur Championships.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

That funny because at my private gym there are about 5 to 10 guys shooting 3 pointers on one end of the floor while the full court game is on the other end of the floor. And there is even professional athletes and gym employees involved. GASPS. And they all make it work.

At least you got one point correct in your paragraph. "Your rights end when they impinge on other rights, even if its a league."

So your gym is a public park?

The point here is respect. If a league is ongoing you give it respect. The league should give you respect by pointing out where you can play without interfering with the league. You give respect to the league by staying out of their way. It isn't an all or nothing proposition. Your opinion is that you shouldn't give respect to anyone, that only what you want matters. Kind of the same mentality that Weema has.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

I wonder if ballgolfconvert is aware that he's the "Weema" of this thread.

Actually you are proving that you are all Weema's. As long as you get what you want it makes no difference how it affects others. Selfish and self absorbed is the name of the game and folks, that is why disc golf will never gain the popularity you all wish is bestowed upon it.

 

[Future_Primitive]

Actually you are proving that you are all Weema's. As long as you get what you want it makes no difference how it affects others. Selfish and self absorbed is the name of the game and folks, that is why disc golf will never gain the popularity you all wish is bestowed upon it.

Says the self absorbed convert running his weekly league like its the friggin NFL and everybody else must genuflect in their presence.

 

[Three Putt]

Another less obvious reason for the split except to those involved in running these events was the range of courses required to properly challenge the range of skill levels present and also the difference in the amount of time it would take to play those rounds on 2-round days.

The little recognized problem that remains tangentially related to the Weema issue is only a small percentage of PDGA members can realistically both qualify, get in and contend in any of the World Championships run each year. At least the women have Intermediate, Rec and Novice women divisions in their US championships and their biannual global event. But even though we also have Intermediate, Rec and Novice "mixed" divisions based on ratings breaks, there are no Worlds or global championships offered that are more accessible for players like Weema who's still above 700 rating. For example, even though it's only two events where your age and handicap range matter, ball golf does at least offer their men's and women's Mid-Amateur Championships.

The amount/variety of courses was actually a really big problem that reduced the number of viable places that could bid for a World's and created travel/logistic issues for people playing in World's. I think that was one of the solid reasons they had for making a lot of the changes that have been made.

I keep going back to Mid Nationals when this conversation comes up. Those green and purple divisions got no traction; people at those ratings levels didn't seem interested in competing for a "Championship" against people of a peer skill level. That was over a decade ago, though. Is that an idea you think should be revisited?

 

[robdeforge]

The PDGA gets to decide who can play in events
The PDGA decides that, for some events, you need to be above 900

That's really all there is to it! Lloyd and other sub 900 players don't deserve anything. He previously met the requirements and now doesn't. How does it take 8 pages for people to understand this?

 

[Cgkdisc]

I keep going back to Mid Nationals when this conversation comes up. Those green and purple divisions got no traction; people at those ratings levels didn't seem interested in competing for a "Championship" against people of a peer skill level. That was over a decade ago, though. Is that an idea you think should be revisited?

I think rating brackets would be the most effective way for addressing lower skill level, championship events. St. Louis (who ran the 2007 Mid-Nats version) or Lemon Lake, for example, would have the courses and be more accessible than say Highbridge to reboot the concept. In particular, having a championship limiting the ages to at least 40+ would be a way to get larger, fair divisions and not have to offer over 20 age based, pro/am divisions. You wouldn't even need to run all rating ranges at a single event so you could tailor the courses for the specific skill levels.

 

[biscoe]

At least the women have Intermediate, Rec and Novice women divisions in their US championships

This was one of the biggest challenges in hosting the USWDGC- such a wide clientele to serve.

 

[ballgolfconvert]

Says the self absorbed convert running his weekly league like its the friggin NFL and everybody else must genuflect in their presence.

LOL. And you know what about my league?

 

[Hampstead]

LOL. And you know what about my league?

I know enough to know that if you're the representative then I'm glad I don't play in it.



-shrug-

 

[DanJon]

So your gym is a public park?

The point here is respect. If a league is ongoing you give it respect. The league should give you respect by pointing out where you can play without interfering with the league. You give respect to the league by staying out of their way. It isn't an all or nothing proposition. Your opinion is that you shouldn't give respect to anyone, that only what you want matters. Kind of the same mentality that Weema has.

Your opinion is that the league shouldn't respect the fact that they are playing on a PUBLIC course.

They don't own it, therefore they need to oblige other players.

Get over yourself.