Markers - Round - discs - Why?

[rhatton1]

From the PDGA technical standards

"Mini Marker discs must have a circular shape, with a diameter ranging from 7 cm to 15 cm
and a height not exceeding 3 cm. Mini marker discs can be made from a variety of materials
(e.g. plastic, metal, wood)."

Is there a reason for a marker to have to be a mini disc and not some other object? Opening up the mini to different shapes gives manufacturers a number of different product opportunities.

With the lie now basically being a 20 x 30 cms shape why can the mini not be up to 20 cms instead of 15?

Does the marker need to be round and only up to 15cms? I can't think of a good reason for it?

 

[uncle pennybags]

Because golf discs are round shaped?!!?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I like a marker that's small and can easily fit in a pocket for quick, easy deployment and storage. Circular shape means no edges to get hung up during ingress/egress.

That said, I have no problem with allowing non circular shapes, provided the new shape doesn't increase the ambiguity as to where the lie is. While I love the concept of a marker that clearly defines the 20cm x 30cm lie (such a as a sheet of paper or foldable plastic) I can't imagine a configuration of such a device that I personally would be willing to carry around and use... but perhaps that's because I'm not creative enough.

Maybe a durable, prefolded plastic sheet measuring 20x30, with rounded corners to avoid getting caught in pockets, that folds down to about the size of a credit card?

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

Because I don't want to make any other shapes.

 

[rhatton1]

Does the marker need to be round and only up to 15cms? I can't think of a good reason for it?

I should add to this I can think of lots of good reasons for other shaped objects to be used as a mini and was mainly wondering if there is something historical I'm missing that has meant only mini discs can be used.

 

[Nale72]

Wouldn't a regular disc be better as a marker than a mini? Anyone know the reason why it's not allowed to use a regular disc to mark the lie. The size is pretty much exactly the width of the lie, with makes it easier to see from a distance if someone is within his/her lie or not. And the size is allowed when you use your original thrown disc. If you could use a regular disc you wouldn't need to carry around a special mini marker. Win-win? I guess there is a good reason why it is not allowed, but missing the history, I have a hard time figuring out what it can be.

 

[jupiterboy]

When did mini markers become a thing? I never noticed anyone using one early '80s. Between the markers and the phone for keeping score and the bag there's a whole lot more fiddling around. I kinda miss three discs in one hand and a beer in the other.

 

[Rastnav]

I should add to this I can think of lots of good reasons for other shaped objects to be used as a mini and was mainly wondering if there is something historical I'm missing that has meant only mini discs can be used.

I would think the biggest advantage to using a circular shaped object is that, because it is circular, the rules that define the lie behind the mini are the exact same as those defining the lie behind a disc. Any other shape creates ambiguity in exactly how the rules apply, the scenario BogeyNoMore is concerned with. If you mark, say, with a hexagon, is the middle of the a flat side your lie? A point?

Practically, it's not going to make that much difference, but it's just one less headache to deal with.

As to why a mini and not a regular disc that Nale72 wonders about, again, it removes ambiguity as to whether the disc on the ground can be marked. Mark with a regular size disc, then you all of sudden you are unsure whether you have already marked. Most of us have had the experience of flipping a disc and then starting to flip it again, or having a doubles partner do it.

Lastly, minis and marking the lie are a thing so you can re-throw the exact same disc.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Great so now that I know it's a 3cm height restriction you're saying my beer can as a marker is illegal? Bah!!!

You know it's a foot fault if you spill your beer.

 

[BillFleming]

When did mini markers become a thing? I never noticed anyone using one early '80s. Between the markers and the phone for keeping score and the bag there's a whole lot more fiddling around. I kinda miss three discs in one hand and a beer in the other.

I think the original rule allowed for the 'flipping' of your disc to mark the spot (either play using the disc where it lies as the marker, or flipping it over). But that was easy to abuse, a player could flip it a bit further and get a better spot. If they were 'called' on it, there was no way to prove where the disc originally was. But with a marker disc, you can see the player place it and immediately know if it was placed correctly.

((Disclaimer: I didn't play disc golf back then so I'm not positive of the reason....the above is just what I think the reason for using a mini might be)).

 

[jupiterboy]

I think the original rule allowed for the 'flipping' of your disc to mark the spot (either play using the disc where it lies as the marker, or flipping it over). But that was easy to abuse, a player could flip it a bit further and get a better spot. If they were 'called' on it, there was no way to prove where the disc originally was. But with a marker disc, you can see the player place it and immediately know if it was placed correctly.

((Disclaimer: I didn't play disc golf back then so I'm not positive of the reason....the above is just what I think the reason for using a mini might be)).

We were very casual. I'm practicing playing with a mini but if I was ever in a tournament I'd get foot faults all over the place no doubt. I still smack the chains with the disc on a super close putt instead of dropping it in the basket and waiting until it stops moving. Old habits, but I'm far from competitive so nobody cares.

 

[BillFleming]

We were very casual. I'm practicing playing with a mini but if I was ever in a tournament I'd get foot faults all over the place no doubt. I still smack the chains with the disc on a super close putt instead of dropping it in the basket and waiting until it stops moving. Old habits, but I'm far from competitive so nobody cares.

and that is what I see in casual play and non-sanctioned league play. Which then makes it hard on those players when they do play sanctioned rounds....they aren't used to playing "by the rules". I don't see any issues with players, in those cases, tapping the chains, flipping their disc as a marker, picking up their putter and making a putt without using a marker of any kind, "gimme's", playing music without ear buds, etc...as long as it is a friendly round. It only hurts those players when/if they start playing sanctioned rounds.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

I think the original rule allowed for the 'flipping' of your disc to mark the spot (either play using the disc where it lies as the marker, or flipping it over). But that was easy to abuse, a player could flip it a bit further and get a better spot. If they were 'called' on it, there was no way to prove where the disc originally was. But with a marker disc, you can see the player place it and immediately know if it was placed correctly.

((Disclaimer: I didn't play disc golf back then so I'm not positive of the reason....the above is just what I think the reason for using a mini might be)).

This is the often quoted reasoning, and it's pretty darn silly, as has been explained in many threads in this forum.

In real life, few people will care what marker you use, or if you use one at all, even in competitive play. I've never owned a marker disc, and have somehow survived an awful lot of tournaments with no issues.

 

[Steve West]

You can usually get a free mini by asking if it's OK to mark with something else during a tournament.

 

[rhatton1]

This is the often quoted reasoning, and it's pretty darn silly, as has been explained in many threads in this forum.

In real life, few people will care what marker you use, or if you use one at all, even in competitive play. I've never owned a marker disc, and have somehow survived an awful lot of tournaments with no issues.

What do you do when out of bounds/stuck in a tree/bush/lie is against a solid object etc.?

 

[BillFleming]

This is the often quoted reasoning, and it's pretty darn silly, as has been explained in many threads in this forum.

In real life, few people will care what marker you use, or if you use one at all, even in competitive play. I've never owned a marker disc, and have somehow survived an awful lot of tournaments with no issues.

but do you leave your thrown disc on the ground as your marker instead of using a marker disc?

I have been in several sanctioned tournaments and have seen players called on not using a marker or not using a marker correctly. The majority of times, after the warning the player has done it correctly, but, I have seen a player get penalized and ended up DNF because they refused to either use their disc as it was or use a mini marker (after a few throws and getting penalized each time - they quit).

 

[BogeyNoMore]

When did mini markers become a thing? I never noticed anyone using one early '80s. Between the markers and the phone for keeping score and the bag there's a whole lot more fiddling around. I kinda miss three discs in one hand and a beer in the other.

Minis don't need to be a thing for the kind of casual round you describe. Nothing wrong with a few discs in one hand and a beer in the other.

But if you want to throw the same disc you just threw, during a competitive round, some sort of marker is a must.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

What do you do when out of bounds/stuck in a tree/bush/lie is against a solid object etc.?

Lay down another disc, a bottle of water, any other object on hand, or just take a stance and throw with no mark.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

but do you leave your thrown disc on the ground as your marker instead of using a marker disc?

I have been in several sanctioned tournaments and have seen players called on not using a marker or not using a marker correctly. The majority of times, after the warning the player has done it correctly, but, I have seen a player get penalized and ended up DNF because they refused to either use their disc as it was or use a mini marker (after a few throws and getting penalized each time - they quit).

Yes, I use my thrown disc as my marker, unless forced to do otherwise, as detailed above. I'm sure some players take marking rules seriously. Most don't.

The lie is very important. The marker isn't.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Several rules in any sport were introduced to solve situations where player(s) took advantage of an unregulated or less regulated situation. The mini marker emerged for that reason when a particular player was seen taking multiple flips of his disc back in the 70s. As I understand it, the "lie" for your next stance was contact within the area where your thrown disc just landed. That's why flipping it was the way it was marked to provide the visual reference to its shape/diameter.

Changing the Lie to the LOP had to be introduced once mini markers came into play. I think the RC recently missed the "mark" by not changing or at least providing an optional marking method that indicated the width of your lie, and why wasn't it set at 21cm instead of 20cm? (Presumably since it's shorter than the smallest diameter disc? round number?) Might have been some interesting discussions within the RC and possibly the PDGA Board on this.