[MVP] MVP Disc Sports (Official Thread) (Part V)

[wolfmandragon]

I've been unsure of their business plan since they started Axiom. If it was me I would be trying to build one brand not two or three.

The way that Axiom was marketed was that it was for the brother that did less of the technical side and more of the marketing side, as he thought that the discs needed more bling. Who knows, that may be true. Axiom may have been launched to keep down family tension.

The cynical take at the time was that MVP wanted to compete with shelf space with trilogy. That also may be true.

From my time watching this play out, I think it was a bit of both.

Either way, Streamline needed to be on its own. Easy break in concerns.

 

[Mediocrefellow]

So, i got my hands on a few Teleports and a Dimension. First thought's are, wow these are stable. One of the Teleports is much more stable than the other two. Same weight but difference in dome. The Dimension is an absolute beast. One of the most overstable discs i have ever thrown. It's like a Stiletto/really overstable PD2 but with glide. It is also super poptop, are they all like this?

The Teleports i really like. One is straight-understable, nice bit of turn and a good fade. One is straight, very minimal flip and healthy fade. The third is almost like a Dimension, no flip at all and really big fade. I feel like this stack of Teleports could fit in the bag with the Destroyers and PD2's i throw.

Just got a dimension and love it. It's exactly what my bag was missing. Headwinds at full power it flies straight forever with a small turn and healthy fade. My octanes and mayhems flip over in headwinds so it's a welcome addition to the bag and absolutely bombs. Gonna need a few more. Havent tried the teleport where does it fit stability wise?

 

[Jacobpaul81]

Got my first taste in Gyro-plastic with the Neutron Proxy and a Neutron Envy. Absolutely love them both. But, the Proxy is a bit understable and the Envy is a bit overstable. So i'm looking for something in between. Like the stability of the Envy without the fade.

Plasma Envy. Plasma isn't as OS as Neutron, beats in quicker, and has more glide.

 

[Thmz]

Just got a dimension and love it. It's exactly what my bag was missing. Headwinds at full power it flies straight forever with a small turn and healthy fade. My octanes and mayhems flip over in headwinds so it's a welcome addition to the bag and absolutely bombs. Gonna need a few more. Havent tried the teleport where does it fit stability wise?

For me the Teleport flies like how Dimension's fly in a headwind. Small turn and still a good fade. They actually go really far when you get them nose down and give them height. Probably the easiest distance if you have over 450ft of power.

 

[Jacobpaul81]

I've been unsure of their business plan since they started Axiom. If it was me I would be trying to build one brand not two or three.

This seems bizarre to me as well. Wish they'd just do multi-color rims on all their discs and be done with it. Name them what they want. We all call them all MVP anyway. Never heard anyone on the course say - "He throws Axiom!"

The way I understood the announcement was that they were moving everything in house and they needed to transition molds to their new equipment. Most of the midranges were made with the same core ... their original mold ... which apparently does not work on their new equipment. New molds are expensive - so I'm sure the discontinuation is a financial decision in order for them to successfully transition to their new equipment.

 

[Mediocrefellow]

This seems bizarre to me as well. Wish they'd just do multi-color rims on all their discs and be done with it. Name them what they want. We all call them all MVP anyway. Never heard anyone on the course say - "He throws Axiom!"

The way I understood the announcement was that they were moving everything in house and they needed to transition molds to their new equipment. Most of the midranges were made with the same core ... their original mold ... which apparently does not work on their new equipment. New molds are expensive - so I'm sure the discontinuation is a financial decision in order for them to successfully transition to their new equipment.

There's that, which is reason enough I think, and the fact that despite a cult following of loyalists their mid's have been the weakest part of their lineup. Ive personally bagged a few tangents, an axis, vector, and theory and finally settled on proton and electron matrix's to cover all mid shots because I find it to be the most versatile mid they have.

I love my vector, and I loved my tangents until I lost the last one at hillcrest farms but honestly I found the tangent lacked glide, the vector wasnt as stable as I wanted, the axis was too stable and the theory was perfect but only as a slow turnover disc (which there's likely no better) and its hard to justify bagging one when I've got a beat electron atom that does the exact same shot and is also my putting mold.

My opinions don't matter though, I think it's the notion that in the public sphere/"forum-land" There are many who've vocalized the opinion that MVP's mids were their weakest point and when there's the buzzz and the comet to compete with I think they likely would have done it eventually no matter what.

They seem like guys who strive to move forward and are constantly fine tuning things. If you've ever dabbled as an artist of any kind (music for example) you know how difficult it is to listen to old songs you recorded in your earlier development - especially when set against your current work. It's an uncomfortable juxtaposition. But re-recording those old songs to match your current style and skill is the difference between having a few hit singles or having a hit ALBUM and I think they just want every song on theirs to be a chart topper.

I for one am excited to see what they come up with because their putters and drivers are leading the industry pack in performance IMHO.

 

[Mediocrefellow]

Plasma Envy. Plasma isn't as OS as Neutron, beats in quicker, and has more glide.

Try an Atom?

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Try an Atom?

In Neutron.. Heck yeah that will work but stock up quick..

 

[Mediocrefellow]

In Neutron.. Heck yeah that will work but stock up quick..

Yup, Neutron. Im kinda choked that ones OoP now... I love mine AND am gonna need a few more of them.

 

[BeRReGoN]

I like my neutron Atom but my proton Atom fly the same for me. It's a clear kind of purple color so it's hard to find so I use my neutron most of the time. Still I wonder why no more neutron Atom but if they do some in plasma It would be great.

 

[discspeed]

They just discontinued production N Atoms. I have a feeling a lot if their plastic option discontinuations were in part to make Circuit/LE/etc special discs more special. If the Atom remains popular I would bet we will see it run in Neutron again at some point.

 

[funguy]

They just discontinued production N Atoms. I have a feeling a lot if their plastic option discontinuations were in part to make Circuit/LE/etc special discs more special. If the Atom remains popular I would bet we will see it run in Neutron again at some point.

They were also probably considering the burden on small retailers to carry a full line of their discs. That has often been the biggest complaint, too many plastics to choose from. And for many of these molds, the plastic flight differences are minimal.

 

[ThomasOrion]

I loved my Neutron Atoms. I hope they can find a way to give life back to some of those molds. a PLASMA ATOM would be cool. I just hope they are stable so they don't overlap with my Proxy

 

[discerdoo]

Scratched my itch for getting a $50 Big Z Luna.

Got a sweet blue/blue plasma Envy instead. Gonna be throwing it 400' before you know it.

 

[discspeed]

I just grabbed a heavy Proton Atom and I'm pleased to say that it is the most overstable Atom I've thrown. The fade starts a little earlier and is a bit more gradual than my N Atoms. In the under 300' workout I gave it today I saw zero high speed turn, even with some wind.

My P Matrix is starting to break in. I'm noticing later fades and better glide on shorter stuff. The nice slight hyzers I was getting when the disc was new are now pushing forward. Basically it's becoming more Buzzish.

 

[Mike C]

I just grabbed a heavy Proton Atom and I'm pleased to say that it is the most overstable Atom I've thrown. The fade starts a little earlier and is a bit more gradual than my N Atoms. In the under 300' workout I gave it today I saw zero high speed turn, even with some wind.

My P Matrix is starting to break in. I'm noticing later fades and better glide on shorter stuff. The nice slight hyzers I was getting when the disc was new are now pushing forward. Basically it's becoming more Buzzish.

They showing any high speed turn for you?

 

[discspeed]

They showing any high speed turn for you?

My Matrix is starting to push on a 300' shot, which means it's getting a micro amount of turn to stay straight longer and delay the fade. It doesn't have a 3 part flight yet. I can see the potential for it to become a nice turning disc in time. I almost grabbed a Neutron with a high PL and an Electron yesterday to try to go full-on Matrix, but I got a Pyro and P Atom instead. Maybe next time.

 

[Jacobpaul81]

There's that, which is reason enough I think, and the fact that despite a cult following of loyalists their mid's have been the weakest part of their lineup. Ive personally bagged a few tangents, an axis, vector, and theory and finally settled on proton and electron matrix's to cover all mid shots because I find it to be the most versatile mid they have.

I for one am excited to see what they come up with because their putters and drivers are leading the industry pack in performance IMHO.

Interestingly, according to sales data from Infinite, the Axis was selling pretty well for them. Better than the Matrix. Top 3rd of the line-up. Of course, practically every other discontinued mid had low sales. Not surprising, the Envy was outselling everything else at a ridiculous rate... it was outselling the next most popular disc, the Pilot, nearly 3 to 1.

When putters like the Envy or Pilot or Entropy fly 300' consistently, what's a midrange driver actually for? Beginners struggle to throw far and race out and buy drivers. Advanced players may add a midrange at some point - they are still for the most part, driver happy. Pros have the arms to throw putters like mids... Midrange Driver is a challenging sell point I'm sure.

I've personally bagged the Axis, Matrix, Vector, and Deflector - at one point all at the same time. But they slowly but surely got removed from my rig. I have a Matrix, but I don't use it much. Envy / Entropy covers most shots that I'd throw a midrange at - when I do throw it, it's usually for a left to right anhyzer in the trees where I need a little more speed to carry.

Steve did say this week that they will be using the Matrix core for future mids... so that's interesting...

 

[wolfmandragon]

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When putters like the Envy or Pilot or Entropy fly 300' consistently, what's a midrange driver actually for? Beginners struggle to throw far and race out and buy drivers. Advanced players may add a midrange at some point - they are still for the most part, driver happy. Pros have the arms to throw putters like mids... Midrange Driver is a challenging sell point I'm sure.

...

Putter require too much height and lack glide. Drivers don't hold lines as clean.

If you play heavy woods golf, a mid is more important than a putter or a driver. I can putt with a mid.

The low glide of MVP mids killed them in my area.

 

[ThomasOrion]

Putter require too much height and lack glide. Drivers don't hold lines as clean.

If you play heavy woods golf, a mid is more important than a putter or a driver. I can putt with a mid.

The low glide of MVP mids killed them in my area.

exactly - the ceiling, and the shot shape determine the type of disc WAY more than the distance. There are short shots that McBeth throws high-speed drivers and other players on the same card throw a putter. also the super long holes he throws a mid or putter when its Driver distance. All depends on the ceiling, the shape, the finish, the ground-play and the wind. So yeah, Mids are really important, but if I'm playing a wide open course I may not use any. Just depends. I use certain fairway drivers for low ceiling shots where the distance may call for a putter or mid. All depends.