taking away the 2 meter rule

[Cgkdisc]

MTL - I'm not sure of Biscoe came up with this idea or not, but basically, all creeks have a false OB line that looks like it is clearly your standard OB line above a drop off to a creek. If you are wet in the creek, you simply take your meter from the OB line. But if you are between the creek and false OB line, you play it as it lies w/out penalty. It really is genius and really avoids a lot of problems.

A slight tweak would be to declare the ground between the OB line and the water as "not a playing surface" which allows the player who lands touching "dry" between water and OB line to mark on top one meter from the OB line without penalty by using the marking rule for "disc below playing surface." No need for PDGA approval for this setup.

 

[DavidSauls]

Everyone I played with in the late 80s, early 90s didn't like this rule and we (people I play with locally who have been around that long) like that the rule has changed.

I'm in the same boat. I didn't mean to say that everyone's opinion is based on what they've always done---just that a there are a lot of people whose opinion seems mostly anchored that way.

I was too, at one time. When the rule changed I disapproved. It took me a while to conclude that the reasoning for the change was sound.

 

[DiscChainBasket18]

Not necessarily a crappy shot!

A shot that comes to rest above 2m is by definition a crappy shot, like one over a fence ob, in the water or otherwise unplayable from where it lies.

Said as an old Californian...

Fence OB & water hazards are established penalties. You cannot play a disc out of the middle of a lake. I guess you could stand in the out-of-bounds area & throw but it's not currently allowed & has never been questioned & made optional. You can however stand underneath your disc that comes to rest up in a tree. If you've ever seen tourneys at DeLa (& other courses) there are countless holes where players are throwing over the tops of trees as opposed to through a low ceiling, narrow branch covered alley. Over the top usually gets you a birdie. Lucky to get Par going the conventional route down through the 'fair'way. I'm in favor of allowing players options without penalty!
Said by an even older Californian (who now resides in NC).

 

[DiscNutt123]

I say take it away, mainly because a great shot can be robbed by a disc getting stuck in a tree. 9/10 a disc will fall from the tree, but it hurts during a tourney round when you hit the same line you've hit 9 times through a tree then it gets stuck on the 10th during your round.

 

[pchitti]

We use the 2m rule every club mini and local event. It does suck at times, but its always a errant shot or someone trying to go over the top. Both situations warrant the penalty IMHO.

 

[Stud Muffin]

If it falls down, you are still rewarded for the same dumb shot.
If the wind blows it down while the other players hole out, the bad shot becomes a great shot?

And why is a disc stuck in a tree 1.99 meters above ground a better shot than one stuck at 2.01, and how do you even make that call accurately.

The rule is just too random.

Well I will admit to using the trees, like when 17 at Engler is the island green, I do not aim for the island at all, I aim to hit center on the tree in the center of the island, to knock it down on the island. If the tree wasn't there, my shots would be 100' past the island. I have seen too many people aim at the island, throw low, and hit one of the low hanging branches being knocked into the lake, or hitting the island rolling into the lake.

All that to say, while I would not change my strategy, I have eliminate all the 'risk/reward' of the shot, so the 2 meter rule still brings a 'risk' to my shot.

That is the great thing about DG, no matter how good you get, a few inches from a obstacle is all there is from a great shot and disc stuck in a tree.

 

[DGRZ001]

I like a rule that helps to speed up play. 2M penalty should discourage throws that use trees for an advantage, and that would speed up play because many times it takes longer to locate a disc that flies that way than it does if you throw it clean down the fairway.

How about this - If the event limits itself to foursomes and no extra holes, then there is no 2M penalty; otherwise, put it into effect.

 

[New013]

I like that it can be used in certain situations but I think the PDGA should define those situations a bit better. Baskets under canopies is one of those situations and in that case I'm for a version of the 2m rule. I've seen guys just aim for a bushy tree branch over a basket so the disc will just fall down for a putt. In that case I like what Mr. Sauls was talking about in that your putt has to be moved outside the circle for no penalty.

 

[DavidSauls]

That was Mr. Kennedy's suggestion.

This must be regional because I've only played 1 hole in my life where the strategy was to throw into the trees and let them drop you near the basket.

 

[gdub58]

If a golfer hits a ball into a tree you get a free drop if you can find the ball. Just makes sense.

This is incorrect - you have to play it where it lies in all circumstances (I believe Nick Faldo actually climbed a tree once to find/play his ball). If you cannot get to the ball in order to identify it, even if everyone in your group agrees it was stuck in a tree, then it is a lost ball. If you do find it you take an unplayable lie if you can't play it.

Anyhow, the 2m rule is at the discretion of the TD. Same is true for mandos and OB. I've played tournaments with mandos and OB that do not exist at any other time. Don't they create a bunch of random OB ropes at the USDGC and in other tournaments? How is this any different?

The rule should continue to exist as an option, and the rules simply describe what happens if it is in effect. Same with OB and mandos - they are optional and the rules describe how those should be played.

I'm all for adding to the difficulty of courses in tournaments, especially A-tiers and majors. Yes, it can seem random, but I've seen plenty of kicks off of trees and basket hits that roll 40 ft away that seem a lot more random than the 2m rule.

We never invoke the 2m rule in casual play, just as I don't create random mandos or OB.

 

[BENFTS]

Not only should the 2m rule stay in but it should be enforced at all tournaments. This game is about shot placement and placing a shot in a position that could allow it to be about 2m or in danger of landing in an area where that could happen is entirely on the player throwing the disc.

I enforce the 2m rule for all the tournaments that I run and view it as no different than making sure you don't foot fault on a putt, the responsibly is on the player to hit shots and recover from the outcome of a shot that didn't work the way they wanted.

I haven't had a 2m penalty for years and I play all the courses out here, De La, Ryan Ranch, Pinto, GGP, La Raza and so on, so if I can avoid it I think all of you can too. When did sissy's start playing this game trying to change rules because they missed shots.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I'd be for allowing the 2m penalty if every missed cut-thru putt also counted if observed by the group. Balance the fluky bad luck with some fluky good luck. Both make about as much sense to apply.

 

[inourdr]

The 2 meter rule is used at almost every tournament in Montana... some that Dave has even played in.

 

[gdub58]

I'd be for allowing the 2m penalty if every missed cut-thru putt also counted if observed by the group. Balance the fluky bad luck with some fluky good luck. Both make about as much sense to apply.

Oh, come on - we've all had good kicks and bad kicks off of trees, had off-center putts grabbed by the chains and center hits bounce out, and so on. The 2m rule is not a fluke - it's an unfortunate outcome from a less than ideal throw.

Maybe we should cancel tournaments if the wind is too high, and call do-overs if we get a bad roll-away.

Man up people. Stuff happens.

 

[zenbot]

Interesting that it is 2 meters.

How tall is Stork? I bet he's close to 2 meters.


*flashback to golden age of disc golf*

"If the disc is above Stork you get a stroke."

 

[HarkeyPuck]

Should a drive stuck 40' above the pin be a birdie?






Sorry, just playing Devil's advocate.

No, but you'd have to "tap" it in for par.

 

[_MTL_]

I'd be for allowing the 2m penalty if every missed cut-thru putt also counted if observed by the group. Balance the fluky bad luck with some fluky good luck. Both make about as much sense to apply.

The headaches this just caused thinking about the arguments THAT would cause might stop by dinner. At least I hope.

 

[Cgkdisc]

If the sport at the competitive level is about measuring skill, then every effort should be made to reduce luck factors where feasible and possible. The 2m rule falls more on the luck side with few exceptions. Calling it OB when landing surrounded by water in mostly dry or narrow (under 2 feet wide) creeks is also too lucky. Calling asphalt paths OB that cross fairways where it's IB on both sides creates an unlucky situation. I'm sure some of you can think of other lucky elements that exist or are deliberately created where there's more luck than skill being introduced.

Jumpin' Joe Feidt PDGA #362 is also a 2-meter stick along with Stork, or at least when they were younger...

 

[_MTL_]

I'm sure some of you can think of other lucky elements that exist or are deliberately created where there's more luck than skill being introduced.

For sure. But like with this awful wedge rule we now have, the problem isn't the rule or the luck, it's poor equipment.

 

[Cgkdisc]

At least the wedge rule favors the player. They at least get hole outs they wouldn't get with perfect equipment as long as no one's looking.